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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
Saw T yesterday for our once every three week meeting.
Talked about an maternal emotional attachment I am forming with a young woman who works as a live-in nanny elsewhere in the city, and lives here with us, at no charge, on weekends.
I am astonished by my attachment to her, I think of her when I cook, when I shop, I think of her needs, and her preferences. I want to sew for her, sing to her, make her life better. (I don't want to have sex with her, for any of you who might be going there, which is a logical place to go when thinking about some sorts of love.) She is from South America, is very poor, smart, funny, fun, pretty. She is alone here. And out of me comes a love I did not know I was capable of.
It shocks me, frightens me. My T suggests that I am learning another way of loving. That's surely true. Still, it's scary. I don't want to hurt this woman. My husband said that he is afraid she'll hurt me, that he can't imagine me ever hurting her.
We often hurt others inadvertently.
Today what is surprising me most is how I am feeling abut my T. I feel so strongly, so so attached, I miss him and I want to cry, I want to curl up against him and feel the cared-for safety and understanding of him. Yes, it's the day after, the missing of them that's we've talked about here. But it's as though, since I am considerign so intensely the attachmemt I have to my young friend, I am also discovering the deeper feelings I have for other people too.
For my husband, for example. I am loving him to the point of distraction. I miss him, think of him, care about him. That's been going on for a couple of months, yes, since this young woman began to awaken these strong maternal feelings in me.
I feel full of love. It's WIERD. I used to be so angry, so ready to rip people to shreds at the slighest excuse. Now I am ready to compliment, smile at, befriend ... understand. Them first, me later. With strangers as well as friends. I used to be so selfish. I am so less so now. It's so WIERD!!!
ShortE
Posted by cricket on December 6, 2005, at 16:38:00
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
Hi Shortelise,
Wow, it sounds wonderful.
The first thing I thought when I read your post was I want to be that young woman in your house. Tough cricket who thinks she doesn't need anybody really is all of a sudden weepy.
I am so happy for you. How long have you been with your T now?
It's really great to hear about your love for your T. It feels so secure and honest. It's so hard for some of us to attach and I guess others attach in an insecure way but it sounds like you have it just right.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2005, at 16:54:42
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
I think that's not an unusual reaction to love. Especially maternal type love. It never runs out, it just expands the heart to make room for more. :)
That's great news about your husband!
Posted by fairywings on December 6, 2005, at 19:06:15
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
Hi ShortE,
I'm glad you're feeling so full of love. It's a good feeling. I would guess if this woman you're so attached to is from a simpler place, and is used to a simpler life, she wouldn't have it in her to hurt you, and you love her so much you wouldn't hurt her. Is she also a very loving person? I'm glad it's awakened good feelings toward your dh and T also, that's got to make things feel better all the way around.
I'm glad you're feeling happy.
fw
Posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 21:34:51
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2005, at 21:39:03
In reply to it does kind of hurt though (nm), posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 21:34:51
Opening yourself to joy also opens yourself to pain.
Posted by daisym on December 6, 2005, at 23:18:48
In reply to it does kind of hurt though (nm), posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 21:34:51
I think I know that "love so much I ache" feeling. I relate it to looking at my children when they were newborns and never knowing before what it meant to love with my whole being. Love is a powerful emotion, I'm glad you have so many people to spread it around to.
I think one of the more painful sides to therapy is the separation that must occur after we have emotionally merged with our therapist during a session. It feels lonely, and yet the memory of them is warm and comfortable. At least that is how I feel. It reminds me somewhat of that adolescent need to stay close to the person you've connected with - boyfriends or best friends -- being on the phone all the time, etc.
I hope the loving feelings grow and the sad ones diminish. ((((ShortE)))
Thanks for sharing. It made me smile.
Posted by Shortelise on December 7, 2005, at 1:39:22
In reply to Re: it does kind of hurt though » Shortelise, posted by daisym on December 6, 2005, at 23:18:48
I don't feel like I love my T though. I don't like the word in context with him. It's so ... other, what I feel about him.
Ok, here's where I go with that. How can I love a person I hardly know? I mean, I grew to love my husband. The falling in love thing happens, but getting to know him is what made me love him. My T is this guys who sits in a room and tries to see thing from my perspective, who is kind to me, who is there for me. He never f*rts or yells at me, or watches TV when I am trying to ask him something. He sits and pays attention, listens, is as empathetic as he can be, and sympathetic. I don't know what how he treats waiters, what he's like when the pharmacist can't find his prescription, or what his table manners are like.
For me to love him, well, it's kind of ... absurd, and shallow. I don't know him. I simply don't know him. And of course he is gratifying to be around - he is very good to me, and cares about me in a way I have come to depend on.
I don't feel I can actually love him, but I only love the facet of him I know, the one that feeds me, emotionally and has little to do with him as a person.
What I think I love is being understood, being heard, listened to, and treated kindly. The man who does these things I like, but it's what he does for me that I love.
Everyone who read my post that started this thread assumed that I was saying that I love my therapist. I didn't say that. But everyone assmued that was what I meant - or so it's seems from reading these responses. It's interesting.
I struggle with this. And no (I hear you asking) I have never discussed it with him. The idea makes me start to cry.
ShortE
Posted by orchid on December 7, 2005, at 3:09:08
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
That is really incredible. It shows your T has done his job very well with you.
It is your power to love which was underlying beneath the surface all this time that is emerging out like a fountain. Oh - how I wish that everyone can access their reserve of love that people spend all their time burying underneath layers of stupid and silly things.
I am glad for you. Don't worry about feeling too much love - eventually it will come down and flow in a nice and smooth way!!
> Saw T yesterday for our once every three week meeting.
>
> Talked about an maternal emotional attachment I am forming with a young woman who works as a live-in nanny elsewhere in the city, and lives here with us, at no charge, on weekends.
>
> I am astonished by my attachment to her, I think of her when I cook, when I shop, I think of her needs, and her preferences. I want to sew for her, sing to her, make her life better. (I don't want to have sex with her, for any of you who might be going there, which is a logical place to go when thinking about some sorts of love.) She is from South America, is very poor, smart, funny, fun, pretty. She is alone here. And out of me comes a love I did not know I was capable of.
>
> It shocks me, frightens me. My T suggests that I am learning another way of loving. That's surely true. Still, it's scary. I don't want to hurt this woman. My husband said that he is afraid she'll hurt me, that he can't imagine me ever hurting her.
>
> We often hurt others inadvertently.
>
> Today what is surprising me most is how I am feeling abut my T. I feel so strongly, so so attached, I miss him and I want to cry, I want to curl up against him and feel the cared-for safety and understanding of him. Yes, it's the day after, the missing of them that's we've talked about here. But it's as though, since I am considerign so intensely the attachmemt I have to my young friend, I am also discovering the deeper feelings I have for other people too.
>
> For my husband, for example. I am loving him to the point of distraction. I miss him, think of him, care about him. That's been going on for a couple of months, yes, since this young woman began to awaken these strong maternal feelings in me.
>
> I feel full of love. It's WIERD. I used to be so angry, so ready to rip people to shreds at the slighest excuse. Now I am ready to compliment, smile at, befriend ... understand. Them first, me later. With strangers as well as friends. I used to be so selfish. I am so less so now. It's so WIERD!!!
>
> ShortE
Posted by one woman cine on December 7, 2005, at 6:54:40
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
I think the healthy attachment I have had (or the absence of it), has enabled me to have deeper, more complex relationships as well. & interestingly enough, it is the dichotomy of healthy/unhealthy relationships (the relationship with myself included) makes me realize the progress I have made.
Posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 7:03:19
In reply to love, posted by Shortelise on December 7, 2005, at 1:39:22
> I don't feel like I love my T though. I don't like the word in context with him. It's so ... other, what I feel about him.
>
> Ok, here's where I go with that. How can I love a person I hardly know? I mean, I grew to love my husband. The falling in love thing happens, but getting to know him is what made me love him. My T is this guys who sits in a room and tries to see thing from my perspective, who is kind to me, who is there for me. He never f*rts or yells at me, or watches TV when I am trying to ask him something. He sits and pays attention, listens, is as empathetic as he can be, and sympathetic. I don't know what how he treats waiters, what he's like when the pharmacist can't find his prescription, or what his table manners are like.
>
> For me to love him, well, it's kind of ... absurd, and shallow. I don't know him. I simply don't know him. And of course he is gratifying to be around - he is very good to me, and cares about me in a way I have come to depend on.Absurd, possibly. Shallow? I don’t see it. Love can be pretty absurd. But I’ve never heard of love being shallow!
> I don't feel I can actually love him, but I only love the facet of him I know, the one that feeds me, emotionally and has little to do with him as a person.
I think it must have something to do with him as a person; if that didn’t matter at all, there would never be problems with therapist-client ‘fit’.
I think we (clients in general) tie ourselves in knots over this. How much of my therapist is in the room with me? Is he a real person, or someone I made up? We tell ourselves we can’t have a real relationship with them because we only know the person they present to us in therapy; we don’t know all their faults. Well, I think people who’ve been in therapy a long time could probably make a pretty accurate list of their therapists’ faults. And we tell ourselves we can’t really love them because we don’t really know them; and that they can’t really love us because we’re just patients and not really special.
I honestly believe that there can be real love. I just don’t see that any other word fits. Maybe it doesn’t happen to everyone or in every therapy, but when it happens it’s love. Maybe it’s a special kind of love that happens only in therapy and isn’t like loving a partner or a parent or a child or a friend. Just as religious love is different from other kinds of love, or classroom love is different from other kinds of love. But if it’s not your experience, it’s just not your experience.
> What I think I love is being understood, being heard, listened to, and treated kindly. The man who does these things I like, but it's what he does for me that I love.
Maybe so, although I find it difficult to make a distinction between who someone is and what they do.
Sure, you’ll never know him as well as you know your partner or your friends. But how much do we have to know about someone before we can call the feeling love? Sometimes I think it’s about the quality and history of the relationship rather than about knowledge.
> Everyone who read my post that started this thread assumed that I was saying that I love my therapist. I didn't say that. But everyone assmued that was what I meant - or so it's seems from reading these responses. It's interesting.
Yes, when I read your first post it sounded to me as if you were saying that you were feeling love for your therapist (probably projection on my part). And then I read this post and I accept that you don’t. But you describe something that I would probably call love if I felt it. So I guess I’m trying to get my head around what makes the difference to you.
> I struggle with this. And no (I hear you asking) I have never discussed it with him. The idea makes me start to cry.
(((((ShortE)))))
I think it’s truly wonderful that you have so much love in your heart right now. You don’t have to love your therapist as well; some relationships are close without being loving and that’s just fine. And if you do ever come to love him, that will be just fine too.
Tamar
Posted by fairywings on December 7, 2005, at 10:04:09
In reply to Re: love » Shortelise, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 7:03:19
Gosh Tamar,
How do you think so deeply? You're very philosophical. I love to read your posts, they make me think about things I'd never consider.> I think we (clients in general) tie ourselves in knots over this. How much of my therapist is in the room with me? Is he a real person, or someone I made up? We tell ourselves we can’t have a real relationship with them because we only know the person they present to us in therapy; we don’t know all their faults. Well, I think people who’ve been in therapy a long time could probably make a pretty accurate list of their therapists’ faults. And we tell ourselves we can’t really love them because we don’t really know them; and that they can’t really love us because we’re just patients and not really special.
That's really an interesting thought - is he a real person or someone I made up. Maybe because the focus is on us completely during that one hour, he's not "real" in a sense that it's not a normal relationship we'd have with a spouse or friend. But over time you'd seem to get to know the real person, wouldn't you, at least in some sense? Unless they're a blank slate.
I feel pretty lucky because my T believes in sharing his real self, and a lot of his life. He tells me personal things, just because it's the way he does therapy - teaching by example. But, then how much do we project onto them because of the way we see them, or the way we want them to be, or the way they have to be for us to rely on them to help us? I think you can get to love a T, just like anyone else you could love. If you can hate them, or be mad at them, or care about them, why not be able to love them too?>
> I honestly believe that there can be real love. I just don’t see that any other word fits. Maybe it doesn’t happen to everyone or in every therapy, but when it happens it’s love. Maybe it’s a special kind of love that happens only in therapy and isn’t like loving a partner or a parent or a child or a friend.That's really interesting.
>
> > I struggle with this. And no (I hear you asking) I have never discussed it with him. The idea makes me start to cry.(((hugs ShortE))
Are you sad because you want to be able to discuss the feelings with your T, but can't get yourself to do it?
I want to someday love my T, he's such a wonderful person, and I'd like to know someday that he has love for me as a person, not just one of his patients. I don't think that's at all different. I hope you're not so sad, and can think of a way to discuss it.
>
> (((((ShortE)))))
>
fw
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2005, at 12:26:54
In reply to love, posted by Shortelise on December 7, 2005, at 1:39:22
I understand what you mean. I'd never choose my therapist to be my husband or my friend, most likely. And I'm very clear that I want him to have his therapist's hat on when I see him.
Yet, I do love him in a way. Yes, I know he's rude to waitstaff and secretaries (because he told me so), and that he speeds and likely drives a bit less than generously, that he can be impatient, and selfish, that he loves money a bit too much, and things. I even know that he takes a bit of advantage of me, and would take more (with shaving off time and stuff) if I let him. Yet I still love him. I'm not in love with him, I don't want to be with him more than maybe three hours a week, and I want him to be his professional self those three hours. But I do love him anyway. I want what's best for him, except perhaps if it means losing him forever.
But I didn't take that meaning from your original post. I just thought you were saying that you were so filled with love that it hurt.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 9, 2005, at 7:06:11
In reply to Huge feeling, posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2005, at 15:19:09
> It shocks me, frightens me. My T suggests that I am learning another way of loving. That's surely true. Still, it's scary.
Anything new is scary but this sounds really nice. And you are a very caring person, so of course you are concerned about the possibility of hurting her.
> I feel full of love. It's WIERD. I used to be so angry, so ready to rip people to shreds at the slighest excuse. Now I am ready to compliment, smile at, befriend ... understand. Them first, me later. With strangers as well as friends. I used to be so selfish. I am so less so now. It's so WIERD!!!
I use the word weird all the time, in therapy. It's my favorite word. :)
I'm so happy for you, shortelise. I remember from your posts over the last year or so (actually, I think I've been here two years now?) how you've worked so hard in therapy. It's so nice to see that paying off.
I'm glad you feel so free to love. I imagine it's a great feeling!
((((shortelise))))
gg
>
> ShortE
This is the end of the thread.
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