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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 10:29:15
Hi everyone, it's been a while since I was here, but it's good to be back. I hope everything has been going as well as possible for all.
Here's the deal with me right now: I've been seeing my T since mid-February '05. Transference kicked in BIG TIME by the middle of March - feelings of lust, love, wanting to be with her all the time, wanting to know everything about her, wanting to forever "bask in the light of her presence" - basically a full-blown obsession.
I told her sometime during the summer about my feelings (wow, how embarrassing was THAT?!?!), but due to her reaction I didn't bring it up for further discussion, and neither has she.
Other than that, she and I seem to have worked well together. I've made some definite progress (the biggest change I've been able to make was to quit using drugs almost nine months ago, after using for 25 years)and was able, after some time of course, to open up to her and share many things that I'd not been able to share with anyone else.
She told me a week ago today that she's leaving to move somewhere (I didn't ask where) and that her last day will be January 26. She's referring me to a "trusted colleague" with whom she says I'll be "safe." (Feeling safe is a huge issue with me, and this termination isn't helping at all, believe me.)
When she told me she was moving away, I felt like I got blindsided by a truck. Since then, I've been feeling absolutely bereft - lots of tears, off and on, throughout every day and night - and feelings of depression, anger (but not at her, which seems weird to me), betrayal, and, I guess, grief. I wish I had known sooner so I could have prepared better. I know I won't, but I feel like I could just die, knowing that I'll never see or be able to communicate with her after she leaves.
I'll be seeing her twice a week between today and her departure, so ten sessions. I want to bring up my transference issues again but wonder if I should really wait until I start with the new T?
Not that I even want a new T - I'm in the state of mind at the moment that no one will do except my current T, and I'd just like to give up on therapy at this point. I find it difficult to even consider opening up and being real with another T after this experience.
Thanks for any thoughts . . .dancinbillie
Posted by annierose on December 27, 2005, at 10:50:36
In reply to Termination + transference - I'm losing it =(, posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 10:29:15
Wow, poor thing. I'd be losing it too if my T only gave me 30 days notice she was moving. Understandably you are experiencing all sorts of emotions.
I do not know you from before, but I gather, your T is not psychodynamic. Your T didn't seem to want to help you work with or through the transferance feelings. I applaud you for having the courage to share them with her, and shame on her for ignoring your feelings.
I don't know you or your history, so please ignore my two cents --- no offense taken --- if I'm off the mark. I would try to bring those feelings up again. Tell her how important sharing this stuff is, how hard it is, and you would really like help dealing with it in the short time you have left working with her. If she is psychodynamic in orientation, she should be able to help you get some sort of handle on it before you begin working with the new T.
You are losing someone extremely important to you. Feeling grief, rage, depression ... share it with her. You'll be able to share it with your new T too.
Posted by pegasus on December 27, 2005, at 10:58:36
In reply to Termination + transference - I'm losing it =(, posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 10:29:15
Oh, geez, I'm sorry. That sucks. I think all of the feelings that you expressed are very understandable. This type of thing is devastating. and she really hasn't given you much time to work through the termination before she leaves. So, so sad.
I went through something like this a couple of years ago. My T told me in the middle of October that he'd be moving away at the end of the year. I was devastated. I went home from that session and crawled into bed, and stayed curled up under the covers crying for a whole day. When my husband came home, he asked what was wrong, and I said, "T is moving away." He replied, "Oh, that's too bad." Which just showed how little he understood the whole thing. I still cry about the loss of that T at least once a week, and I think of him every day.
But . . . I did find another therapist that worked for me. I found it really incredibly helpful to talk it all over with someone else. All of the feelings of betrayal and abandonment can be really hard to deal with, and it helps to explore where they come from and how they connect to other experiences you've had.
I eventually got to the point where I could see the good and bad things that happened during my termination with my ex-T, and I could articulate the things I wish I could have said to him, and that I had wanted him to say to me. And I understood why those things seemed so important to me, and why we didn't manage to say them at the time. And I had a chance to say them to my new T, even when I couldn't say them to my old T. It didn't solve the frustration entirely, but it did help a lot.
One particular thing I notice in your post is that she is giving you very little time. Can you point that out to her, and discuss how that affects you? Also can you discuss what will happen after she leaves? Sometimes Ts will let you email them or call them occasionally after an abrupt termination like this, at least for a while. I mean, it might not be right to do therapy that way, but to maintain a connection can be helpful in terms of mitigating the feelings of being abandoned. That's what my T did. I still email him every few months, and he usually writes back a short but supportive email. It made a world of difference to me, in terms of feeling like he really did care, and that I was right to trust him, and that our relationship had been/is genuine.
I wish you lots of luck and support and comfort during the process of this termination.
pegasus
Posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 13:13:30
In reply to Re: Termination + transference - I'm losing it =( » dancinbillie, posted by annierose on December 27, 2005, at 10:50:36
Hi annierose,
Thanks so much for your reply and your understanding =) You're right, I'm really flooded with emotions right now, none of them pleasant . . . I'm so dreading the 26th. Here I am starting to cry just thinking of it.
Okay, I'm back, though with red eyes once again . . .
I was wondering myself if she'd given me unusually short notice that she'd be leaving. I was looking on the internet earlier and didn't find any specific recommended or ethical timeframe. She explained that she has a wonderful opportunity elsewhere - it seems to me she would have known about that for some time before she announced her departure to me. Oh well.
We have been doing psychodynamic therapy, yet you're right, she clearly didn't want to delve any more deeply into my transference feelings besides telling me, "You don't even know me" when I told her I had a crush on her, and then asking me if I knew about transference (about which I'd educated myself before bringing up my feelings to her), and telling me that's what my feelings were about. She also told me the feelings would subside after a while - but here I am six months later, and the feelings have definitely not subsided. I wonder if that's because I haven't had a chance to work through them with her (or maybe a different T).
I think you're on the mark about bringing this issue up again before the therapy ends. I feel utterly embarrassed and awkward about talking about those feelings again, I guess partially because I know she's heterosexual and I've always identified as heterosexual too - but I have a feeling it's important somehow, which is why I went ahead and brought it up originally. At least I don't have to worry about her terminating me over the issue, like I worried before, since it's going to be over soon anyway.
I suppose I can talk to the new T also, only the weird thing is that she's a friend of my current T - they trained together and have known each other for 20 years, according to my T. And jeez, what if I get all wound up in transference feelings with her? I don't know. I feel altogether worse now than I did before I started therapy.
Thanks very much again, annierose . . . I'll be back . . .
dancinbillie
Posted by Frida on December 27, 2005, at 13:46:08
In reply to Termination + transference - I'm losing it =(, posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 10:29:15
Hi..I'm so sorry you're going through this..
I wanted to send you my support, I would be so devastated if my T were to do this...
I hope you can talk it over and over and over with her, and find some relief to this...
I hope she can give you something somehow your next sessions for you to feel some comfort in your heart.
safest hugs to you
Frida
Posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 13:58:31
In reply to Re: Termination + transference - I'm losing it =( » dancinbillie, posted by pegasus on December 27, 2005, at 10:58:36
Hi pegasus,
Thanks so much for your reply and your understanding =) You hit on a number of issues that resonated for me:
Like I posted to annierose, I also wondered if she gave me an unusually short notice before termination. I'd think at least a couple of months would have been more appropriate - especially given my issues around abandonment, safety and attachment (I'm an adoptee), which we've been exploring.
Last week when she told me she would be moving away, I was so shocked at first that I didn't feel anything at all, and simply told her that I was really pleased for her and her "wonderful opportunity." After touching on some other topics, I totally burst into tears with no warning. We talked for a little while about how I was feeling, and I reminded her that I can be slow about processing emotions sometimes, and I wanted to talk about it maybe at our next session, after I'd had an opportunity to absorb the news and feel whatever came up. I'm still working on integrating my thoughts and feelings, so there's always a delay before the two come together . . .
Then I cried driving home, and was crying when my husband got home - I told him what was up, and he was decent about it at first. After a few days, though, he began to get irritated at my depression and sadness, and he doesn't understand why it's such a big deal for me.
I hope the new T can help me out with this. As I noted in my post to annierose, my T was clearly uncomfortable and very, very reluctant to accept and deal with my transference feelings toward her, and I'm thinking maybe that's why those feelings are still there, strong as ever.
I want to be able to say everything I need to say to my T so that I don't have to deal with any "unfinished business" - but I bet that's not going to happen . . . So it helps to hear that you were able to work through those issues with a new T.
I'm not sure exactly why, but I feel uncomfortable asking my T whether I could email her or speak to her by phone from time to time after she leaves - although I would dearly love to have that option. As you said, it feels to me that a connection like that would be very helpful in terms of my abandonment issues. I do feel betrayed by her leaving and . . . just . . . foolish, I guess, that I trusted her and believed she cared, albeit on a professional level only.
Jeez, I'm rambling - but it's been really helpful to me to write this post and the post to annierose, in preparation for seeing my T later this afternoon. Thanks again, pegasus - both for your understanding reply and your indulgence =)
I'll be back . . .
dancinbillie
Posted by annierose on December 27, 2005, at 15:30:01
In reply to Re: Termination + transference - I'm losing it =( » annierose, posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 13:13:30
I take it you are a woman seeing a female T? I am female (obviously by my name) and see a female T too. And my T does not find it strange that I feel such a close connection with her. I love her, but I'm not "in love" with her. It's not a sexual feeling, just longing attached painful loving feelings ... I don't know quite what ... lots of different feelings for her.
My T will tell me the opposite of what your T expressed to you. She will say, "This relationship is like a glorious love affair. It's only natural that you would feel all these feelings towards me. I am the center of your emotional life right now." And just recently, when I gave her a Christmas gift she told me, "You know so much about me." --- even though she tells me very little about herself. When you work this intimately with someone, the very essence of each other is revealed in the sharing and understanding of information, even though it is mostly a one-way street.
I'm surprised that your T has been doing therapy for over 20 years --- and is psychodynamic at that. As painful as switching Ts will be, and it will, you may find your new T understanding these painful issues at a deeper level. Keep posting and talking about it. And if you can, share these feelings with your T. If you only brought up the subject once, I would try again.
Posted by pegasus on December 29, 2005, at 10:24:20
In reply to Re: Termination + transference - I'm losing it =( » pegasus, posted by dancinbillie on December 27, 2005, at 13:58:31
I'm glad you're finding some help here. This is just a terrible situation for you.
I really think that a lot of Ts don't have any clue about how terminations can affect clients. I know that transference etc. is covered in training, and the ethical codes mention not abandoning your clients. But I think to a lot of Ts that just means making sure they have another therapist. I don't think they realize how deep the feelings can go, and how damaging a bad termination can be. As you said, you feel worse now than when you started therapy. The same was definitely true for me. Although over time I think I've gotten to the point where I am able to benefit from the therapy that was done before he moved away, despite the heartbreak of losing him.
It reminds me of a conversation I had the other day with a friend who is training to be a therapist. She had just terminated all of her clients from the previous semester's internship, and I was asking her about how she handles the intense attachment the clients sometimes have. She said, "well, that's just inappropriate expectations for the relationship." I thought, "I think it sounds like *you* have inappropriate expectations for the relationship if you think it's appropriate to just dismiss the attachment that way." I wish I'd said it to her. Maybe I will if it comes up again later.
Anyway, good luck to you. Please keep posting about how your feelings develop during this really challenging time. I'd love to hear how your therapist handles it, too. And remember that even when it seems like you're going to die from the grief, there is (good) life and good therapy after termination.
hugs
pegasus
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