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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 30 to 54 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by rubenstein on May 18, 2006, at 11:07:06
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 17:50:50
Happyflower, I am so sorry you are in pain and that your therapist isn't helping matters. I don't know what I can do for you but just know that I am thinking about you. Please stay safe.
rachel
Posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 13:56:02
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 7:44:11
****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that. They help us explore the "why" of our behavior and tell us that despite our current shortfallings, we still have potential. That THEY believe in our potential, even if we don't.
It is amazing to sit near someone who believes in you, and who helps you believe in yourself. It makes you want to sit near them and draw comfort and strength for hours on end. It makes you run to them when your belief starts to wane...and it is easy to get these feelings of need for strength and reassurance mixed up with or in with, sexualized feelings of need and want.
I think women often find that when they need someone to be intimate with, man or woman, sexual feelings come into play. The primary need maybe for comfort, or to feel that you "matter" to someone else, but these feelings have a powerful physical component. How many times have we read here about wanting to be hugged or give a hug? It might not be sexual but it sure is physical.
My own battle is with the maternal nature of my needs for my therapist. He is a man, I'm a woman. That dynamic has come into play, but I guess he didn't allow it to remain an elephant in the room. Talking about it, calling it out and figuring out how to really name what I want has been painful but necessary. I think HF has really, honestly started this process of figuring out what she needs from her therapist. And it is a painful process because just because you can name the need doesn't mean you get it met, by your therapist or anyone else, necessarily. But knowing what your needs are, for validation, for example, is the first step to finding a way to get them met. In therapy and definitely, outside of therapy. It is the ultimate "love/hate" relationship, I think. For me, I hate the process yet love my therapist.
All that said, if my therapist didn't have an appointment time, he'd do a phone session. But I'm well aware this is unusual, and he happens to be good on the phone.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Larry Hoover, posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 13:56:02
> ****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
>
> Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that.My gut is telling me this one has gone awry. I don't know better words for it than what I used. The therapist man let things go too far. It was his duty not to, but I think it did.
Lar
Posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 18:14:46
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Daisym, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
For anything. It needs to be worked out and talked through - and if terminated abruptly or quit abruptly, it would lead to intense pain down the road.
HF - I don't think it is a right decision to quit. And that too not so suddenly. IT will leave you in immense confusion down the line. Please don't do that.
Your T needs to understand you little more I think and understand your ups and downs. Maybe telling him more about your feelings will help him realize. Kind of be like 100% honest (like you are here in this board) with him about your feelings for him and about everything in all details.. Then perhaps he might be able to really understand the full depth of the issue. He is probably still not realizing the full extent and thinks of it superficially.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 19:00:26
In reply to Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer » Larry Hoover, posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 18:14:46
> For anything. It needs to be worked out and talked through - and if terminated abruptly or quit abruptly, it would lead to intense pain down the road.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that's what I was suggesting. It certainly is not what I had in mind. But I am not convinced this situation is fixable.
There's still lots to talk out, yet, but getting it back onto a therapeutic track would be a lot of work....that's my concern.
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer » orchid, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 19:00:26
Just a quick note, he didn't call me back today after I left a message for him yesterday that I was quiting. I think he is glad and relieved. I didn't expect him to call me because I don't think he really cares and is probably wanting to give up on me anyways. Maybe I can get some free counceling, since i am a college student now. Maybe I don't need him anyways.
I will respond more later to each of you, thank you for your support during a very hard time I am having. I really don't have very many postitive thoughts about my T at the moment. I can workout at the university for free, so I don't need to look at my T anymore. I can just fall off the edge of the world, and he won't even know I am gone. Maybe that is what is best, for me to just disapear, like he never knew I exhisted.
I don't plan on calling him back if for some reason he calls (which i doubt). I really don't want to see him anymore and i don't want him in my life anymore, he shitted on me, just like everyone else has who has meant anything to me in my life. :-(
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 22:28:37
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
{{{{{{{{unhappyflower}}}}}}}}
Posted by madeline on May 19, 2006, at 7:47:26
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
Oh happyflower I'm so sorry this happened. When therapists are good, they are very very good, but when they are bad, they are very very harmful.
I don't have any words of wisdom to add here, but I am thinking about you and loving you across cyber space.
Be good to yourself.
Maddie
Posted by milly on May 19, 2006, at 11:04:02
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
Oh Happyflower ((((((HF)))))))))))
I hate this has hurt you so badly I was so worried it would end messily you deserve so much better
milly
Posted by B2chica on May 19, 2006, at 15:45:38
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
oh (((((((((((((happyflower)))))))))))
i am so sorry he did this.
you are hurting so much and just need help. why can't he just be what you need. i'm sorry he can't.
but you know, maybe you are right about being able to get counseling from school now that your a student. i think that's a great idea.
-but that doesn't make it hurt any less.sorry, don't really know what wise words to say here, kinda dead in the head lately but i REALLY want you to know that i am here and cyber hugs to you dear one. (((((((((((((((((HF))))))))))))))))))
please be good to yourself right now. maybe get some super chocolate chunky monkey or something??
cares
b2c.
Posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 14:49:33
In reply to Re: I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 16, 2006, at 11:24:45
You're a wise man.
Posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:19:28
In reply to Re: I called my T today, can't get in till next week » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 16, 2006, at 22:11:38
> > So can you develop a good self esteem later in life or is it something you acuire during your childhood?
>
> I just got one very recently. Still has that new car smell. I'm 49.
>
> LarAre you still there? Larry I'm 49 next month ... ew yuck gross, but good too, because I have that new car smell too, some days and it is sooooo nice... and we're the same age, isn't that awful? That we couldn't come to it before....but let's keep what we have and add more and more onto that, and
HAPPYFLOWER I am so so sorry I didn't come here sooner and see your thread, because I relate soooo well to what you are feeling right now and DON'T Do Not let it drive you to distraction, talk to us sweetie, tell us and tell that damn psychologist exactly but EXACTLY where to find you, no holds barred, and tell that wonderful foolish man what he doesn't yet know, in spite of what his profession teaches him, and that is that you are a person with depths as deep as his and you are just as damn worthy of his trust as he is of yours .. and so far, you have shown more honesty and integrity than his profession or his ego allows him to show you ....
That's what I did. But I was bad, very very bad because I got addicted to making telephone calls and leaving messages on his machine or his voicemail or what-the-hell-ever ... a person with an imbalance of compassion and understanding versus professional pride would see that in a very negative, draining way and perhaps would act upon this ... and whatever ... I don't know their side either, any more than he would have known mine.
But I do know this.
I was full of integrity in my honesty.
And so are you, Happyflower,
and that isn't easy.
That's the hardest, most difficult job of all.
And you're taking it on.
And you be proud of yourself in your strength and your integrity, in the honesty of the pain you allow yourself to feel and show, but don't forget, in the end, that this man is a person too, and perhaps not the wisest, ane perhaps not seeing too clearly everything that could be seen ... Love yourself, HF.
Posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:36:14
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer » orchid, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 19:00:26
Anything would feel abrupt to Happyflower right now, I think .. I could be wrong, but anything less than him sitting her in her lap and stroking her hair and putting her head on his shoulder and just cooing to her, just cooing and nothing else, well maybe .. maybe she would get all hot and bothered because after all, he is not her father and she is not his little girl, she is his client, or his patient, and she has come to him to be loved, and .. well .. I think true therapy has to be found somewhere inside our lives, in reality, not in the office, because now he has to cut her off a bit at a time a bit at a time a bit at a time ... and each little cutting off hurts, unless someone tears away, physically tears and the wound .. well, the would could swallow you up forever, if you're not careful and protective, if you don't hedge your bets and keep playing the game ... you won't survive. Which is why therapists are all kind of dysfunctional in their own way, they just have to be to survive. We need to teach people how to parent themnselves so they don't have to do this as adults. When you have children, the responsibility to know your own self is huge .... you have to grow up your own child, and I just don't know how therapy can make it easier than it has up to now, but there must be something we haven't explored yet, or discovered, there has to be.
Posted by susan47 on May 21, 2006, at 13:22:15
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:36:14
Him sitting her in HIS lap.
Posted by susan47 on May 21, 2006, at 13:23:57
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:36:14
The wound could swallow you up forever,
(I am having a hard time with this ergonomic keyboard) and I apologize. How sloppy of me not to proofread my own docs. Sheesh and how embarrassing, because it makes the whole thing look brainless, and I don't think it really is.
Posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 22:57:48
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Larry Hoover, posted by fairywings on May 18, 2006, at 8:53:41
I've had many Ts and few helped much. I never tried to phone inbetween sessions until the last two. The one before last was very uptight about anything beyond the hour (well, 45 minutes)-- and it was terribly uncomfortable, and strained, because at that time, I needed more concrete reassurance that someone was there.
That was a v. bad set-up: among other things, it reinforced my negative self=image of being too weak, needy etc.
My next therapist was open to calls between times. I couldn't have made it through without that--
I don't know your situation, but if it's something you need, it's legitimate. I hope you find someone who's flexible, and perhaps not so threatened by boundary issues or whatever's going on.
Jost.
Posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Daisym, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
> > ****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
> >
> > Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that.
>
> My gut is telling me this one has gone awry. I don't know better words for it than what I used. The therapist man let things go too far. It was his duty not to, but I think it did.
>
> LarGee, I hope this doens't mean there was some sort of seductiveness going on. That's really completely utterly unacceptable--whether acted out, or just under the surface. I mean there's a line, a level of intensity that's okay--where both people are comfortable witih the limits--but there's a point where it is totally destructive.
I hope I'm overreading here.
Jost
Posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
Hi Jost,
Welcome to Babble if you are new! My relationship with my T has been on the boards for over the past year if you want to look in the archives.
I don't think my T is trying to seduce me, but there is a mutual attraction between us that I think has effects on our relationship. We have done very good work together and I have improved a lot. I also see him in public too at the gym. So our relationship is unique in that way.It is truly a long story, believe me! LOL I am now still struggeling with that we can't have a personal relationship outside of therapy and it hurts. And I think recently my T has tightened his boundries during therapy and I am hurt by that too. It just seems like he doesn't care about me anymore, like I am just a number.
Thanks for your support Jost. Talk soon!
Happyflower
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:54:44
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
You might and you might not be. Whatever, if it's seductive then the therapist is human ... but the therapist isn't getting the right support and maybe he isn't even doing the right thing in his life ... it just proves s/he's human and somehow we have to forgive the humanity in everyone even as we are vulnerable ourselves.
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:57:34
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Jost, posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
I believe that HF, that his boundaries weren't complete with you and maybe we're just supposed to get over that and that's the thing that makes us stronger .. stronger than we've ever been, before .. it's just so horribly painful to go through that, especially when you don't trust your therapist because after all that boundary was crossed, in whatever way it was shown, it was ... it was. And all we can do is pick and dust off or go completely insane with doubt and self-doubt and pain and insecurity .. like I did, I fell off the ledge, but willingly ... willingly .. I actually threw myself off. Don't do that. Be wise about it, learn from somebody like me. I hope I've learned. I hope I have.
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 13:05:28
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » happyflower, posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:57:34
I was just thinking about what I said (hmh, awesome to be able to look at what you've said to someone and go, oh that was silly!) but from a different perspective, it's ridiculous that you would learn from somebody like me, whose made all these errors in judgment etc., when you're so wise about it. Although I don't believe your silly old therapist is having a good time about it either. Sometimes you know, I think they just psychically throw their hands in the air and go, "Let the chips fall where they may, I'm only human..." or some such nonsense. Because theirs is a schizophrenically-inclined profession, if you ask me, imo in my own experience therapy isn't always good for the therapist and sometimes they don't know that 'cause they get so caught up in what they're thinking. WHich may or may not be reality, right? Anyways, ciao and you're awesome, very strong and wise and gifted ...
Posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 17:42:58
In reply to Hey! Happyflower, posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 13:05:28
Hey Susan,
Thanks, but I don't feel very strong and I don't think I am handling the very well. If my T was doing this to make himself seem more human, well he didn't, it seems like he is more *ss than human. LOL (sorry if I am putting down an animal, maddie) Maybe slug would be more like it.
Posted by Jost on May 22, 2006, at 21:10:09
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Jost, posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
> Hi Jost,
> Welcome to Babble if you are new! My relationship with my T has been on the boards for over the past year if you want to look in the archives.
> I don't think my T is trying to seduce me, but there is a mutual attraction between us that I think has effects on our relationship. We have done very good work together and I have improved a lot. I also see him in public too at the gym. So our relationship is unique in that way.
>
> It is truly a long story, believe me! LOL I am now still struggeling with that we can't have a personal relationship outside of therapy and it hurts. And I think recently my T has tightened his boundries during therapy and I am hurt by that too. It just seems like he doesn't care about me anymore, like I am just a number.
>
> Thanks for your support Jost. Talk soon!
>
> HappyflowerHi, Happyflower. I am pretty new here. I'll try to catch up on your history. Stay strong--this sounds tough.
I'm sure actually your T doesn't think of you as a number, but might be self-protective at this stage. What worries me is if he (and you) are caught in a possibly-destructive vacillation between being drawn together, then his closing the door (metaphorically).
That's not good, for either of you--but esp. for you (or at least you're my concern).
Therapists are human, but they have more responsibilities to their patients (IMHO) than people do in most adult relationships. It's complex--but you have a right to be protected in certain ways-- It's always a clinical judgment. I hope he's acted responsibly.
Jost
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:14:14
In reply to Larry » Larry Hoover, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 14:49:33
> You're a wise man.
Thank you. I wish I knew how to look after me the way I seem to be able to look after others. Is there a way to reflect it? A mirror, for wisdom? I can't see what I wise like.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:17:37
In reply to Happyflower, please and Larry??, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:19:28
> > > So can you develop a good self esteem later in life or is it something you acuire during your childhood?
> >
> > I just got one very recently. Still has that new car smell. I'm 49.
> >
> > Lar
>
> Are you still there? Larry I'm 49 next month ... ew yuck gross, but good too, because I have that new car smell too, some days and it is sooooo nice... and we're the same age, isn't that awful? That we couldn't come to it before....but let's keep what we have and add more and more onto that.Susan, there is a weird thing in this 49 thing. You are a metal rooster, in Chinese astrology. Of the six people who went on the Bata tour together, three of us were 49 (and you just come later that year). And you. Now, I wonder about His Bobness. I just wonder.
Musings from the Great Cold North.
Lar
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