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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 8:40:46
Okay, first of all, I'm kind of new to the whole mental healthcare system. I've been seeing T for about 10 weeks. T hooked me up with pdoc about 4 weeks ago after I came clean that I had suicidal ideation.
I don't know what kind of circumstances usually prompt a T or pdoc to compel one to the psych ward. I'm kind of anxious, but that's also a symptom. I think, in this case it's warranted by the situation, i.e. I'm scared for a reason, not just because of irrational anxiety.
So, sometime in the next few hours, T is going to read an e-mail that tells him that I had a suicidal crisis that lasted some 48-72 hours over the weekend. He will also discover that I decided to self-harm via hunger strike. I'm not a very good striker, mind you, but I've had < 500 kcal per day for a few days now. I'm trying to prevent passing out and being hospitalized for other reasons.
But, I'm pretty chill right now. on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is the happiest day in disneyland & 10 is impending, certain suicide, I'm about a 5.
If he interviews me and asks me if I have a plan. I do, but I'm also chicken, and scared of physical pain. Another mediating factor is that I live alone right now.
Personal history: no attempts
Family history: uncle successful suicide, brother (at least) 3 serious attempts and psych inpatient for over a year.If you were my T, what would you do?
If I were my T, I'd put me on a close watch, but let me free.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:53:24
In reply to scared of going to the hospital *trigger*, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 8:40:46
> If you were my T, what would you do?
> If I were my T, I'd put me on a close watch, but let me free.As would I. Close support, with your continued freedom.
Suicide by starvation really isn't suicide. It takes too long for it to represent a single thought. I would consider what you describe to be parasuicidal behaviour. It is you raising the white flag, and showing everyone you have the red flag at your side.
That is fine, for now.
You have us, after all. You are not alone, unless you refute the connection with Babblers. Alone is a decision. You could call the same thing solitude.
You are very new to both psychotherapy and to meds, I presume, from what you said already?
It takes time. Really what we have to remedy, this malady, whatever it is, is timeless. Unfortunately for us, the rest of the world is welded to clocks and calendars.
Simplify your life. That is what is called for. Postpone what can be postponed. Cancel what can be cancelled. Cut the links to clock and calendar, to the extent that you are able. Manage what is left, rather than those other compelling links to time.
All will be well. Seriously. I know that. All will be well.
Lar
Posted by B2chica on May 23, 2006, at 9:15:13
In reply to scared of going to the hospital *trigger*, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 8:40:46
(((((((((llrrrpp))))))))))))
i'm so sorry you are feeling this badly. but i'm glad you are still talking. that is an excellent sign. i'm also glad you came clean with your T. it's important. SI should be talked about not ignored.
i am glad that you are taking in at least some calories. go for the high protein items peanut butter, etc. maybe some shakes that have vitamins and stuff in them.i think i would keep you on very close watch.
do a couple of things for us. talk to your T about your plan. i think sometimes talking aobut this things can often reveal much more than just the plan itself. sometimes more feeling about what is trapped inside that is causing so much pain.and if your T SHOULD recommend hospitalization, either now or in the future. well, we've all had our own experiences with it but i'd say in my experience, it's been mostly good. (if you volunteer yourself....ALWAYS volunteer yourself!-which means if they ask you if you will go, say yes. if you don't and they think you are a threat you may end up in some other facility, THAT happened to me twice and That facility was a NIGHTMARE!-i would choose hospital over that ANY day.) anyway.
mostly hospitals will only keep you 2-3 days. switch some meds around, make sure you are getting counseling upon release and send you on your way.
so don't worry too much.
hugs and cares
b2c.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 11:12:51
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* » llrrrpp, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:53:24
> > If you were my T, what would you do?
> > If I were my T, I'd put me on a close watch, but let me free.
>
> As would I. Close support, with your continued freedom.
>
> Suicide by starvation really isn't suicide. It takes too long for it to represent a single thought. I would consider what you describe to be parasuicidal behaviour. It is you raising the white flag, and showing everyone you have the red flag at your side.I know it's not suicide. It's a way to bide my time and live off of the blubber as a proxy for hope. Because given the option of death or suffering through life, I chose the latter. And I didn't anticipate it, but I think the fasting is giving me some kind of euphoric feeling, which is also welcome, given that I felt so dead, for so long.
> That is fine, for now.
>
> You have us, after all. You are not alone, unless you refute the connection with Babblers. Alone is a decision. You could call the same thing solitude.
>Alone is a decision. Yes in the virtual world, it is a decision for me to post and reply. BUT, in the real world, Alone is the default, for hours and days at a time. Having said that, I think I'm addicted to PBabble. it's better than writing in my journal, because I get a reply, and because I have to think about being civil. My journal entries tend to go off the deep end, of late, and so I'm not sure that they are helping me make sense of stuff. Just having to edit my thoughts to make them sensible and nonoffensive to strangers is pretty good for helping me think. Writing DEMANDS a certain discipline of thought, which is therapeutic, in itself.
> You are very new to both psychotherapy and to meds, I presume, from what you said already?
Yes, correct on both counts. I used to take pride that I was the only healthy one in the family. What arrogance. I should have listened and learned fom others' experiences. I didn't know I would have a turn myself. I started noticing mood symptoms months ago, and when the physiological symptoms commenced, I knew the diagnosis. I'm still figuring out what therapy is all about, and what is reasonable to expect in terms of recovery/remission and effects of medicines. I'm very impatient.
The longer this stupid depression takes, the less it feels like a speed-bump on the way to the rest of my life, and the more it feels like it will become the rest of my life.
> It takes time. Really what we have to remedy, this malady, whatever it is, is timeless. Unfortunately for us, the rest of the world is welded to clocks and calendars.
>
> Simplify your life. That is what is called for. Postpone what can be postponed. Cancel what can be cancelled. Cut the links to clock and calendar, to the extent that you are able. Manage what is left, rather than those other compelling links to time.
>Honestly, I think that this is why suicide rates increase slightly by taking AD. It's because I had hope. I could interpret any little thing as progress, and it was pretty cool. But sometimes life throws you a curveball, and some of us just aren't quick enough to catch it, and it smashes into one's face instead. I thought I was doing well, since I was coping pretty well with bad news. What I didn't anticipate was my averse reaction to GOOD news. Live and learn.
I have simplified my life to the extent that I can without giving up my social relationships. Fortunately, I'm kind of my own boss right now, so I keep my appointments to a minimum. I'm good at saying "no". I also have an assistant, who is wonderful, and probably assumes I'm crazy because I always show up in the wrong place at the wrong time. At least one of us is organized, though.
A problem, concerning the loneliness thing is that most of my socializing takes place in bars. I feel a lot of pressure from my friends to drink and be merry. I can't drink because of the medicines. They know something is up. I used to be the first one to suggest happy hour/ pub night. Now I go home early, by myself, and so, I'm kind of out of the loop. I think a big project this week will be to inform some of my non-happy-hour friends that I'm not doing so well. Right now I can count the people "in the know" on one hand. (well, besides the 500+ lurkers on psycho-babble, that is). I'm starting to regret that, because 2 of them are my docs, and 2 of them never answer my e-mails, and the other one is out of town. So, I think I will have a heart-to-heart with a friend who is kind and lives nearby and isn't a wild child.
> All will be well. Seriously. I know that. All will be well.
>
> Lar
>I'm convinced, and I feel okay. I just need to remember these messages when the darkness beckons. I need to feel safe enough to reach out for help when I need it, before I let things spiral out of control. I was strong enough to survive this time, but that's because I was exhausted, and because I knew that I had obligations. And, because I knew that I could sedate myself and just collapse and reevaluate in the morning. And, because i had a stop-gap solution that brought me some relief. I have been engaging in plenty of mind-numbing behaviors in the meanwhile to disengage from the pain. I don't know if this is therapeutic or not, but here I am. Today I feel like a perfectly reasonable human (well, except for the hunger strike, which is decidedly not normal. but whatever)
Thanks for your kindness. It gives me strength
Posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 11:31:08
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger*, posted by B2chica on May 23, 2006, at 9:15:13
> (((((((((llrrrpp))))))))))))
>
> i'm so sorry you are feeling this badly. but i'm glad you are still talking. that is an excellent sign. i'm also glad you came clean with your T. it's important. SI should be talked about not ignored.thanks for the hug. There haven't been enough hugs for me lately :(
I talk about it after the fact, not when I think something is getting started, and not when I'm agonized. It's remorse the morning after, and wishing that I could change and find support when I need it, instead of becoming frightened and paralysed for hours at a time.
> i am glad that you are taking in at least some calories. go for the high protein items peanut butter, etc. maybe some shakes that have vitamins and stuff in them.
yes, I had 22 grams of vanilla whey shake today. I'm going to eat whatever is in the fridge that's semi liquid, requires no prep, and won't make me nauseous. chewing? who gives a crap? dishes? they are piling up for the last 10 days. another bonus of living alone...I haven't been shopping in ... ? 2 weeks. Whatever, I still have about 2 months of whey protein shakes left.
> i think i would keep you on very close watch.
> do a couple of things for us. talk to your T about your plan. i think sometimes talking aobut this things can often reveal much more than just the plan itself. sometimes more feeling about what is trapped inside that is causing so much pain.Oh boy. I don't know if I can tell him my plan. I don't want to think about it. What if it doesn't work and I wind up like ? very uncomfortable.
> and if your T SHOULD recommend hospitalization, either now or in the future. well, we've all had our own experiences with it but i'd say in my experience, it's been mostly good. (if you volunteer yourself....ALWAYS volunteer yourself!-which means if they ask you if you will go, say yes. if you don't and they think you are a threat you may end up in some other facility, THAT happened to me twice and That facility was a NIGHTMARE!-i would choose hospital over that ANY day.) anyway.
> mostly hospitals will only keep you 2-3 days. switch some meds around, make sure you are getting counseling upon release and send you on your way.
> so don't worry too much.
> hugs and cares
> b2c.
>I'm not sure I have enough moneys to pay for inpatient care for more than a few days. Also, I'm kind of freaked out that my colleagues and family will find my hospitalization a rather scary way to find out that their beloved llrrrpp is unwell. (as I said in an earlier post, few of them are in-the-know)
So I'm torn between wanting to tell T everything, getting it out there, in the gruesome gory details and cry and sob (I cry almost every session lately, anyways. such a crybaby. oh well) and playing it cool, let him know as much as he knows already, and then try to deal with the details on my own.
My stomach is knotted whenever I think about how T will interpret the email. I STILL haven't heard back from him. i know he checks email in the morning. It's been 2 mornings. I guess he only works at this particular office a few days a week?
I want to hide.
Posted by B2chica on May 23, 2006, at 11:56:21
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* » B2chica, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 11:31:08
((((((((((((((((((((((((((llrrrpp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
extra hugs for you dear one.
i know it's scary to think of telling your T your plan. don't force yourself...only if you can. maybe give him a brief overview, or a general idea if you can. if not, just let him know that you do have a plan but you can't talk about it.
and your comment was >>what if it doesn't work and i wind up like....
remember that comment. because it can happen. i work in a field with people with disabilities and i see unfortunately many many folks that have failed suicide attempts that are now dealing with many brain injury issues. i don't want to scare you i just want you to know it does happen. not all are completions.now. i understand totally about your fear of going into the hospital and having that be the way your family finds out. in fact that's exactly what happened to me. i told my husband i had 'anxiety (which i did) but not bipolar, not about the depression. well, it got so bad that i was bawling so hard i couldn't see the computer screen at work and i wanted to die. i took out all my pills and my knife. but luckily i made two calls. one to my pdoc who told me to go to the er and one to a very good friend here at work. he came down, saw the mess i was in, took my pills and drove me to the hospital.
my husband got a call, he came and was scared and overwhelmed but he got through it. he was the one that told my parents. So long story short. it took my going to the hospital for my family to find out what was going on with me. if i'd had it my way NO ONE would have ever known. it was a bumpy ride but i'm glad my hubby knows. and i don't mind that my family does. but you know what. i'm also glad i was in the hospital when they did find out. that way I didn't have to be the one to deal with them, my husband and nurses did. and even a PA one time. i couldn't deal with seeing my folks any longer and the PA came in to run some basic questions and he asked about them being here. i started to cry and said i'd had enough but i couldnt tell them to leave...he did it for me. :^)
i guess my point is. it IS scary. not just for them. but for our dear llrrrpp also. and THAT is what you need to concentrate on. if you are there you can choose to tell the nurses if you do NOT want to see anyone or if you want them to tell them for you what is going on.and you are NOT a crybaby. you have bottled up emotions that are tearing you up inside and you NEED to let them out. if it's by crying...then let it be niagra falls!!!!
and if you want to hide you can ALWAYS go to muffly's cave and hide with her little one. and right now my little one might be in there too. she's hiding and quite well. she's just too vulnerable right now.
as you are.
you need to be taken care of when your pain is greatest. maybe letting your family know would be a good thing?
would they be supportive or helpful? it may be a little rocky at first but after that?
i can't say for sure. you are the best judge of that.do what you need to do for you llrrrpp.
we care about you.b2c
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 12:30:54
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* » B2chica, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 11:31:08
> Also, I'm kind of freaked out that my colleagues and family will find my hospitalization a rather scary way to find out that their beloved llrrrpp is unwell. (as I said in an earlier post, few of them are in-the-know)
I discovered, to my amazement, that simply telling people of my struggle helped me to feel more well. Moreover, you can soon distinguish between "friends" and "acquaintances". One sort sticks it out, and the other runs away. Can you guess which is which?
It's an in-joke in psychology, at least (I can't speak for pdocs. I have a degree in psych.), that everyone in the field is in it because they themselves needed to try and figure out what the hell was going on.
Lar
Posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2006, at 15:37:51
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* ? B2chica, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 11:31:08
It sounds like you feel lousy, but that you really don't WANT to die. Having thoughts of suicide and even a plan for suicide are not the same as DOING it.
My experience is that if I could promise my therapist that I could call her before I took action, that she wouldn't put me in the hospital. Sometimes it is called "contracting for safety". It means that if you find yourself starting to act on your plan (buy required items, or go to your chosen place, etc.) that you HAVE to call and let them help you. So, in that case, you go to the hospital only if you can't keep yourself from acting on your suicidal thoughts. And at that point (as long as you really, deep down, don't want to die), going to the hospital is a good thing.
Do tell your therapist EVERYTHING you can. When do you see him/her next? Call and make an earlier appointment if it isn't in the next day or two. Call if you find yourself drowning in the suicidal thoughts. The whole point of a therapist is that then you won't have to deal with all of this all by yourself. They have heard it before from other people. They DO know how to help. The more open and honest you can be the more they can help.
Make a list of things to do to distract you (Watch TV, go to a movie, call a friend, go for a walk, go grocery shopping, play solitaire with real cards). Make a list of people who you could call who would come keep you company (it is really hard to do suicidal things when someone is sitting next to you).
Over time, you will learn how to handle the suicidal feelings. In the meantime, please keep yourself safe by calling your therapist when you don't feel safe.
And post here. There really are a lot of things you can do to keep safe. It is hard when you feel this way for the first time because you don't know any of them.
Good luck.
Falls.P.S. And go to the ER if you are in danger.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 17:03:54
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* » llrrrpp, posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2006, at 15:37:51
FFalls writes: It sounds like you feel lousy, but that you really don't WANT to die. Having thoughts of suicide and even a plan for suicide are not the same as DOING it.
Yes, you're right. I only want the pain to end. Death is one path, but it's not certain, and it could be messy. There are other paths too, but sometimes they don't seem as attractive.
Well I'm going home, and I'm going to try to distract myself and tell myself that tomorrow I get up, and I go to my meetings as usual. But I don't know what tomorrow brings. I'm panicky (dry mouth, heart palpitations, you name it...) when I think about what's going to happen with the T. I think I might had better double my seroquel tonight. I haven't been sleeping, despite it... Very bad, very bad.
Psycho-Babble has been a lovely distraction today, you guys are good people. I'll hang out more later this evening. (I Think...) And I told someone special to call me every hour and chit chat for a while here and there. So that will help too.
Off chez moi
Posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2006, at 19:41:51
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* ? fallsfall, posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 17:03:54
Good. So you have decided that you will stay alive until tomorrow. That is a very good start.
What are you scared will happen with your therapist? Are you afraid she will send you to the hospital? You should talk to her about this. Tell her your fear. Ask her under what circumstances she recommends hospitalization. Maybe the two of you can come to an agreement on what circumstances would need to be in order for you to go to the hospital.
If you can decide that there is hope that therapy can make things better, then that hope can keep you from acting on these feelings. Maybe you could give therapy a time period, and see if you feel better at the end of that time. Sometimes I can make a decision to wait for a certain amount of time, and forbid myself to do anything dangerous in that time. This means that I can have the suicidal feelings, yet put them aside (because I don't have "permission" to do anything about them at that time). Just being able to put them aside for a little while can reduce my anxiety and help me focus on the things that are making me so upset. You have already done this until tomorrow. Can you give yourself a little more time?
You think that there might be other options. Perhaps feeling better as a result of therapy is one? Try to let your therapist know how badly you are feeling. Try to be really honest with her. Call and ask for an extra session if you think it would help (this is exactly the time that it is reasonable to ask if she has an empty session that you can take).
Posted by llrrrpp on May 23, 2006, at 20:09:02
In reply to Re: scared of going to the hospital *trigger* » llrrrpp, posted by fallsfall on May 23, 2006, at 19:41:51
I'm scared that I'll be chastised for having these thoughts. I'm scared that T will take it personally that I'm not getting better. I'm scared of the big unknown that is going into a hospital (I've never really been sick or injured before, and I know that it can be really expensive and intrusive and unpleasant). I'm scared of not being taken seriously, or not feeling that I'm being taken seriously. T seems not so "into" working with me. Maybe he's frustrated? I'm frustrated. We're all frustrated! I think our last 2 or 3 sessions went pretty deep though. It's just that I'm so "agreeable" that I will nod and say okay, I'll try that, knowing full well that there's no chance in hll that I will. I hate to be bad at anything, and I hate to displease & impose on others. (but T knows this already)
The answers to the rest of your questions: Yes. (or at least "probably")
This is the end of the thread.
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