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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
I've been on a roller coaster this summer - getting ready for my dad's visit, the visit and then vacation with my mom. And I'm getting a divorce. And there has been an ongoing crisis at work. Therapy has been all about keeping it together, preparing myself for the emotional onslaught of each thing and then dealing with it. It is all abuse related in one way or another, but I haven't been telling actual stories/memories in awhile. In fact, for weeks after my dad's visit the younger parts of me were very quiet, in hiding I think.
This week he challenged me to allow the younger parts back into the room with him. Ugg - so many tears and bottled up feelings. And then yesterday, a memory I've told him before was up but as I was talking, the room up-ended and there was suddenly a new piece to the memory --something that I am so ashamed about. We explored this memory in a way that we haven't before and it frightens me. Is this a new level of need? Is this even OK? - I feel like I contaminated my therapist by pulling him into the memory with me. I was remembering being 8 and I was talking about my dad's anger at my brothers. I felt so 8...and my therapist was responding to that part of me. I tried to brush him away and he asked me if I could not judge but just narrate - what was 8-year old Daisy feeling? So we went with it -- and whenever I'd stop, he'd say something short and gentle, either repeating what I'd said, "yes, you were confused" or asking a question,"did you cry?" It was so hard, at one point I said I wished he could see what I did so I didn't have to use words, but it also felt like he was holding my hand as we went into this. His voice let me know that he was OK and still there and he never abandoned her (me) to silence. I told him how I would take it upon myself to soothe my dad and try to absorb his anger. I did this by performing sexual acts and this memory showed me a new one. It was pretty awful, both to have initiated things and to realize that there are still things I don't know. When I pulled up and out of it, my therapist simply said, "let the tears come" and sat with me while I cried. We talked about this experience of spontaneous telling, and he said it was an important shift for me. I was too tired to argue with him.
But today I started out furious with him, telling him that it was too scary to tell like that, I felt so out of control. He said he imagined that was how I felt at 8 - thinking I could control all of this but getting overwhelmed instead. He said we did really hard but good work yesterday. But I was and am freaked out about needing him like that in order to go that deep. And what if I reveal something that is too awful for him to know? He said he already knows it is all awful but that it is important for me to have a witness and open up to these feelings. He used words like healing and trusting but I lost most of it to more tears.
Blah. So I'm really upset. Is this fair - using him as a flashlight, or like bread crumbs to find my way back? What if he gets disgusted and finally sees what I've been trying to tell him about how much of it really is my fault? And I forgot how bad it feels to have memories drop in, like ice down your back. It makes me need him in that terrified little girl way. He asked me if I was afraid he wouldn't be there today and I nodded yes but admitted to checking the answering machine once or twice (OK, 4-times, he laughed) to make sure there wasn't an away message on it.
I really hate this. Why can't I be finished with it?
Posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 20:37:56
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
This is exactly the sort of thing I am dealing with now too. See my message above yours. I really doubt that your therapist will go away, be contaminated, disgusted, hate you, feel powerless, etc. toward you. He sounds like he knows what he is doing as mine does too. I had a bad therapist, and I have not had my therapist for long now, but already I know he is a keeper and will not abandon me or tell me to go find someone else. He knows of my past good experiences when I did a lot of work and then stopped for many years thinking I could get by with out adressing certain things.
Yes it is hard, painful, scary work, and the fears are those of the child. You can help in that regard. I hate it so much to be so vulnerable going back to the emotions, etc of an eight year old, but it needs to be done; I know this. And, one does not heal overnight. It takes time, sometimes years. I don't know you, but just from what you wrote, I know you can do it. You have my support; we are on the same road together.
Posted by sunnydays on July 18, 2007, at 20:57:54
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
((((Daisy))))
It is soooo fair to use him as a flashlight or bread crumbs. It's what he's there for. He's there to take care of you and to be with you and keep you safe in these memories. Be really gentle with yourself. This is a hard time. It can be so hard to get overwhelmed with feelings. My T and I have been working some lately with how far to go without me getting totally overwhelmed and going away - how far is too far - because it can just be a little thing and I immediately go away. It's such a hard line between feeling safe but emotional and overwhelmed.
Keep posting, breathe, and nurture little Daisy as best you can. She deserves all the nurturing you can give her, and you deserve to let your T nurture all of you.
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2007, at 21:25:50
In reply to Re: I'm Upset - triggers (long) » DAisym, posted by sunnydays on July 18, 2007, at 20:57:54
Funny but when therapists and pdocs who did psychtheraphy asked where my Dad was as a child I don't know???? What does this mean? Love Phillipa
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 18, 2007, at 21:32:14
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
Oh, Daisy, I hurt for you. It is so difficult to read your post and yet I'm so glad you wrote it. It's important stuff to know and it's helping me to witness your journey more than I can tell you.
And your T -- wow! If anyone has ever proven that he's in it for the distance, I think it's this wonderful man. What a great partner for you to have in this journey. I don't believe there's anything you can tell him that will change his behavior. I suspect he knows there's more and he's prepared for it.
And I think you'll be finished with it when all the parts of you are finished with it and not a minute before. Certainly not while new memories are surfacing.
I admire you, Daisy. Now let all of us Babblers encircle you tonight and keep you safe, right along with your T. Okay?
Posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 22:08:34
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
You are so lucky to have people here who care about you. That is so important.
OzLand
Posted by Fallsfall on July 18, 2007, at 22:13:50
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
He'll stick with you.
I wish that you didn't have any more new memories. But I'm glad that you have your therapist to be by your side. You will get to the end of this - and he'll still be with you.
Please be good to yourself. Have some cream of wheat.
I'll sit with you if you are feeling alone.
Love,
Falls
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 22:55:55
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
Oh, I'm so sorry about this, but everyone is right. Your T is there with you and won't let you go. You know you can trust him, and the shame you feel about what happened will NOT send him away.
Just keep remembering, like you tell me all the time: you were a child. No matter what happened or what you did, you were NOT responsible, even when something as horrible as this comes up. I certainly don't judge you, your T won't and nobody here ever would. But it's so hard to keep going. Remember you were a kid, and you used the only coping skills you knew, and the horrible ones you feel you used to get through those minutes and appease your father. You had to find a way to live and a little girl of eight is just so innocent and it's terrible that your father robbed you of that.
You were so brave to let the memory come, and even braver to come here and write about it. No more secrets da*n it! For any of us, because it keeps our abusers in control.
antigua
Posted by JoniS on July 19, 2007, at 8:48:43
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
Daisy,
You are incredibly strong and brave. Thank you for sharing your intensely private and painful memories and the process you're going through to heal. I consider it a privelege to read what you share.
As everyone said already and you know deep down it is so true: You are NOT in any way responsible. Don't let those thoughts come in. You are blessed to have such a tender, wise, professional T. He isn't going anywhere.Thinking of you and hoping for better days.
Posted by B2chica on July 19, 2007, at 9:59:47
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
((((daisy)))))
your T sound so supportive to your needs, whether or not it is a new level.daisy...i really need to tell you how important it was to me at how openly you discussed what was going on in therapy. although i'm trying to put any csa issues in the background right now...they do tend to intrude in my life, without my wanting them to. things as simple as giving my DD a bath, or my own body image.
there are many things i haven't discussed in therapy. though i've been descriptive with last T. i got through the actions and not really emotions. i basically just survived saying what happened. never really 'talking' about it. and honestly....i didn't know how to. seeing others post here, really help me not just in maybe how therapy is supposed to go (or not go), but in understanding how Utterly Scary these memories/emotions are...and that one can live through discussing them (and not becoming suicidal in the process).you say "and what if i reveal something that is too awful for him to know?" i think someone else mentioned that chances are i bet he already knows there is more and terrible things and is prepared for them. but this is SUCH a fear of mine. i'm afraid that if i tell some things to my T that she will look at me with disgust and blame and say flat out that what i did was SICK and it IS my fault...this is SUCH a fear that it's held me back in therapy.
>>I really hate this. Why can't I be finished with it?
You said it girl! i feel like i am in this big ossilating cage that goes back and forth between the same problems over and over...never really getting anywhere, never really putting and end to any of it. but i think (in my case) once i've talked enough about it i can lay it to rest...at least for a while. somehow i feel that this is something that will effect a portion of my life as long as i am living. sometimes i see that as TERRIBLE and it depresses me or angers me. othertimes i see it as just an obstacle and will help me to make better choices for both me and DD in the future...other days i try to ignore it all. (lately).these memories and they way they sneak up on us is HORRIBLE. then the emotional turmoil they put us through is worse. yet somehow, people like you Consistantly float back to the top. it gives me hope that i can talk about these things...and survive them. But MOSTLY what i get is that i'm very much NOT alone with things i feel. I truly can not tell you how much that means to me.
it's SO scary cuz i feel SOOOOOO isolated IRL because of my history. babblers somehow make me feel a little less alone. and sometimes...sometimes when those ugly secrets come out on this board, it help me to gain a little more power over my secrets, instead of it having power over me. and THAT gives me a little more power over my abuser.and i didn't mean to make this about me. but it is just SO important to me that you know what you are doing for me...and i'm sure others out there.
thank you daisym.
b2c.
Posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 10:42:28
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
I've been thinking of you all night, knowing the anguish you're going through.
Try to remember, it does get better. We all know this. The waves sometimes are bigger and stronger and sometimes we really feel like we're going to drown, but the wave recedes with the help of others.
I think many on the board would agree that we're with you every step of the way, no matter how horrible and shameful you may feel, and we respect you so much for your willingness to put yourself out there for us, too.
antigua
Posted by Honore on July 19, 2007, at 11:01:13
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
Maybe you don't need him as a witness as much as someone who's there with you, so you're not alone. It's terrible to have to relive, or revive memories that are so painful and hurtful, but we all kind of believe that we need to do that, to get better, however little we feel it at those times when they come over us. But you can come out of it in a better place-- because he can help you find it, or help you create it. You can't do it alone-- you're too much still the little girl who had those feelings; you need a guide, maybe like Dante needed Virgil, to guide him, and keep him from going too far, from becoming too enmeshed, too involved, to strengthen him in going through hell and in re-engaging the friends and enemies he encountered there.
I know he won't abandon you or think you're bad-- but that's what you can come to know, through the terrible moments when he doesn't do or think those things. It's incredibly hard. But you will come to know that you're not deserving of abandonment, but of respect and compassion for all the good impulses that may have been turned into something wrong, by the actions of those around you, that evoked so much confusions, anger, or fear.
Being upset-- is awful, but it really isn't the worst thing-- because it shows that you do believe there's hope-- it's worth going through this again. We all have a belief in you and your T-- in your ability, together, to go as deep as you need to, and to come out of this to a place where things have realigned, been refelt, so much for the better.
I hope you can feel, at least, that this is so hopeful-- that it isn't a bad thing, but an important and necessary thing, that you'll overcome, or undergo, in a way that is good, and valuable. And that we're all with you, in spirit.
Honore
Posted by All Done on July 19, 2007, at 11:32:41
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
((((Daisy)))),
I know you worry about contaminating your T, but could it be that you're the one feeling contaminated by what happened? By what your dad did to you?
And as others have said, from everything you've told us, I can't imagine anything you tell your T would ever be too much for him to handle. Your stories are painful, there is no doubt about that, and I know your T empathizes and probably feels your pain. But I think the good thing about having such a wonderful T is that, while he can hold or carry some of that pain for you in the hopes of easing your burden, he is removed just enough to be able to analyze and maybe compartmentalize his feelings so as to not become overwhelmed or "contaminated". He's close enough to understand, empathize, feel with you and feel for you, though. Please don't stop giving him the opportunity to do these things for you. It's what you need and deserve.
Lots of gentle hugs to you.
Love,
Laurie
Posted by Racer on July 19, 2007, at 12:28:20
In reply to I'm Upset - triggers (long), posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:02:38
>
> What if he gets disgusted and finally sees what I've been trying to tell him about how much of it really is my fault?Reality check, darling friend: NONE of it was your fault. I know it seems that way right now, but reverse the situation a little, as the adult Daisy -- if a child tried to initiate any sort of sexual activity with you, you'd stop it, wouldn't you? (And then you'd probably report the situation to CPS, because you'd know that another adult had taught the child this behavior.) So, tell me again, who's responsible for this? It certainly wasn't little Daisy.
You sound so -- well, you sound as though you've been sucked into a vortex of pain, and shame, and hopelessness. Do you remember when you've been there before? I remember when you've posted about being there in the past. And I'm struck by something else -- this time, you sound stronger, more resilient. I suspect you don't feel that way, but your writing shows that you've got some new reserves to call on now. Maybe you're internalizing your T, maybe you're internalizing what you offer those outside yourself. But you do sound much more able to cope with the huge feelings now.
By the way, although it's different situations -- for me, it's about other sorts of horrible, "I am the worst being on the planet" stuff -- I'm finding that it's easier for me to be kind towards my history now. The more I tell my T about how awful I was, what terrible things I did, how it's all my fault and I'm so fundamentally flawed that there's no chance to have a halfway decent life, the more I tell her those things, more easier it is for me to see that I was TAUGHT that sort of behavior, that my situation didn't offer me many options, and none of those options were healthy ones. I can see, more and more, how much the adults around me channeled me into unhealthy behaviors by their resistance to anything approaching healthy behaviors. (Hell -- you're a mother. What do you think happens when a mother shrieks at her five year old that she's manipulative and "bad"? If the five year old starts crying to make Mommy stop screaming, is that being manipulative? Or is it the only available option for that child? I'm finding it easier these days to say, "Gee, Mom, how does a five year old *learn* to be 'manipulative' like that? And what the hell were you thinking, blaming your child?" Maybe you'll find a similar kindness for your earlier self?)
I don't even know what I want to say to you, dear friend. All I know is that you've helped me so much through my recent dramas, and you've brought a lot of very real pleasure to my life. I hope that someday soon, you'll be able to share that pleasure in your company. You might find that you're a pretty wonderful person to get to know.
Posted by DAisym on July 19, 2007, at 23:30:26
In reply to Daisy--how are you today?, posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 10:42:28
Today I am subdued and sad. I feel kind of devastated and drained. Last night I found myself wishing I could undo part of my post, telling so much about myself...what must everyone think?
I so appreciate the support and kind replies. If I can help, of course I want to. It hurt to read how many here have the same or similiar experiences. And it feels really good to be known well enough to be reminded to take care of myself with things like COW. It is a gift really, to have this space to express distress and receive comfort and care. I've never had it before.
We talked about posting in therapy today and why I needed to share and how awesome the replies are. My therapist is just so impressed with how we help each other here, and he thinks it is great practice for me to show my vulnerable side.
I did check in with him about how he is feeling about hearing my stories and he said he is OK. He said again that we are doing good work and necessary work. He made a point to say that the way we are working is really important and he wouldn't have it any other way. I am relieved about that.
I don't have the words to reply to everyone right now but I wanted you all to know that I'm reading (and rereading) everything you all wrote. I'm so touched and I feel your support and caring. Thank you.
Posted by muffled on July 20, 2007, at 10:20:20
In reply to Re: Daisy--how are you today?, posted by DAisym on July 19, 2007, at 23:30:26
>What must everyone think.
I tried to reply, but what I wrote sounded stupid.
But what I was writing bout was as how I thot 8 yr old Daisy was brave to try and protect her brothers and keep the peace. Its hard when your 8, cuz adults brush you aside. So I think 8 yr old Daisy must be kind and smart and brave to find ways to help keep peace at home.
And I was glad 8 Yr old Daisy was able to survive and that Daisy could be a Mom and help others and be here on babble and be honest and kind and help others by her sharing.
Thats what I think.
I like Daisy I see here on babble.
I bet I'd like little daisy too.
Muffled
Posted by antigua3 on July 20, 2007, at 11:11:32
In reply to Re: Daisy--how are you today?, posted by DAisym on July 19, 2007, at 23:30:26
Aahh, poster's remorse. I feel it too sometimes.
Can't speak for others, but I still feel you were brave to post, to release the memory and hopefully the pain that it has caused you. No judgment here, at least not from me, never.
take care,
antigua
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 20, 2007, at 17:25:19
In reply to Re: Daisy--how are you today? » DAisym, posted by antigua3 on July 20, 2007, at 11:11:32
I agree with Antigua. It was very brave to post and I appreciate your struggle and your honesty.
This is the end of the thread.
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