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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
I don't know what it is, but I want to make a connection with my T. Best case would be another session, but then I'd have to have another session cause that would be the day after - and on and on. Phone calls don't help me, even though we've talked about it, I always believe he's on the other end doing something he'd rather be doing than talking to me and he wants to hurry up and get off the phone. Email helps some. But he is usually so brief in his response that it only helps a little.
I have no crisis and yesterday was one of those good sessions, but nothing memorable, no deep disclosures, which is OK.
I guess I keep trying to accept that T's care even though it's not as deeply as we feel for them. But, I still wish I meant more to him than I do. Why is that? Can anyone help me get beyond this????
Joni
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:40:45
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
so, I waited patiently for 8 minutes for an answer, then I copied it and just now emailed it to my T.
now I'm afraid I'll get the short reply and the keep the emails under control discussion at the next therapy session.
emailers remorse
oh well
now I want to cry.
Posted by DAisym on September 6, 2007, at 12:54:07
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
There are stages of separation anxiety -- the first one being protest. Wanting to reconnect right away is a form of protest.
The next stage is an anxious acceptance - listing and relisting all the reasons someone will or won't return. Self-soothing is utilized here, coping in healthy and unhealthy ways.
The third and last stage is depression and defeat. This happens when you have to wait too long and you lose hope of reconnecting. Anger might be a big part of this, although anger usually signifies there is some hope left.
I think when we are adults, we rapid cycle through these stages, even as we "talk" to ourselves about what the reality of the situation is. But reality has no bearing on psychological time so some of those minutes seem really, really, really long.
My son calls it "therapy hangover." I think he is right.
I hope you get an email back soon. And it doesn't seem to me that this was something unnecessary (is there such a thing?) to send. It was full disclosure of your feelings right now. It was sweet. I wish we all lived closer so we could have more of an IRL response team for times like this.
Take care,
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2007, at 13:24:42
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
I think it's natural and says good things about your therapeutic relationship.
I wish I knew a cure.
Theoretically it would make sense following up with people or activities that kept that good feeling alive. But in reality, I tend to fall asleep.
Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 17:29:19
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
Have you ever felt really special to anyone? I have not felt that way about my current therapist, being really special to him or the most special of his patients, but I did feel that way when I was at Menninger's re my doctor. I was so jealous of his other patients. But he was always there for me no matter what and patient and understanding. I still cry that he died in August 2004 and even though I had not really seen him in 10 years. I did get to the point where I did not feel that way anymore, mostly because I could see I was special to him, maybe not more so than anyone else he saw, but I was special. It was a very proud day for me when I grad'd from the postdoc program and won the writing award at graduation over all the grad's including the residents, etc. My therapist was up on stage and was just beaming. I almost started to cry.
So, now I know all the unresolved crap came up after he died, and I know I am special to my therapist but no more so than other patients and certainly not as special to him as his wife, for example. I would not want to be. Think of how that would feel if your therapist said to you that you are more special to him than his wife. If mine said that, I would run as fast as I could and as far away as I could get as that would not be right. I don't want THAT.
Longwinded me, but have you ever felt truely special to anyone before? I know I had not.
RealMe
(OzLand) --- Who can't spell for sh*t since ECT and continues to have the vocab of someone um maybe now in high school, and not so much junior high. What do you think? Is my brain coming back??? Short term memory is pretty much okay now, but long term memory is still full of holes. I just try not to dwell on it, or I am reduced to tears all over again.
Posted by Honore on September 6, 2007, at 17:50:02
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » JoniS, posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 17:29:19
There is another potential resolution to the sense of wanting to reconnect, which I've found, anyway. That's over time, that I feel connected, so I don't need to reconnect in a material, literal way. I do feel special to my T, and that's part of it-- but it's not enough. It's much more or deeper than feeling "special" which often can just be comforting-- but never lasts either-- I find.
It's this sense that he's still there, which only developed after a long long time (and other things-- including meds and our relationship changing and become more sure).
I totally needed to reconnect-- often right after I left, or at least later in the day-- and it was hard the next day-- so I had a rather extreme version of what you have. I really could hardly stand it.
But don't feel sad or lousy about your email (I know my saying that won't help, because I've been there, and I guess you have to let the feeling pass over you)-- it's really okay. And you are okay-- and I think you'll feel more okay over time. (Okay being a kind of state that sounds so-so, but is really important on a day to day basis.)
The waiting for that, though, can be so hard.
Honore
Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 18:18:46
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy...., posted by Honore on September 6, 2007, at 17:50:02
With my new therapist, I guess I have felt that way sometimes and sometimes not. There were times I emailed him that same day, and then wished I had not. Other times, and more recently, I don't feel compelled to email him or talk to him. I know he is there. I don't think I have emailed him in three weeks except to ask for a script for the next time I come in. I wonder why; maybe I am more comfortable with him even if I get upset and still have trust issues.
I know the more I get into really heavy duty stuff, the more I do need some sort of acknowledgement of this, and without asking he almost always comes through. The more he gets to know me, the better he is about this. He is certainly more verbal than most analysts I have known. My T at Menninger's was much less verbal until close to the end of the session when he would come out with some vague, "okay now I really have to think about what you are really saying" type of comment. He would not typically answer my questions of do you like me, do you care about me, do you hate me. Of course to the latter he would chuckle like Santa Claus. That is what he looked like, Santa--white hair, beard and rather heavy set with a belly that bounced when he laughed. Gosh I miss him. Sorry, I digressed.
RealMe
Posted by sunnydays on September 6, 2007, at 19:46:57
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
I probably can't help you, but I know how you feel. I get freaked out after a session sometimes and just feel like I need to email or call or something. Just to do it, almost. I always do. I've apologized for being so annoying lately, and he claims I'm not being annoying and that it's fine to email him. But I definitely know the feeling. Some of it for me is an obsessional quality to my thinking - we're hoping some med adjustments in the near future might help that. I'm not implying that's what it is for you, but that's what it is for me at least in part. Did you contact him?
sunnydays
Posted by DAisym on September 6, 2007, at 20:04:40
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy...., posted by Honore on September 6, 2007, at 17:50:02
"It's this sense that he's still there, which only developed after a long long time (and other things-- including meds and our relationship changing and become more sure)."
I've worked and worked on this. We call it "therapist-permanance" as it feels just like a child working on object-permanance. I think I'm starting to shift into object-constancy in that I know he now exists even when I can't see him, but I still worry that he will change in-between sessions. Change to me means he will suddenly see how hard it is to work with me and not want to anymore. Or change means we have to work differently than we do now. Or...I could go on.
I think for me the yearning to touch base soon after a session has to do with merging during sessions and then ripping apart again. It is painful and lonely, more so at first and then it gets tolerable again. Weird that it isn't the other way around.
Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 20:38:09
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » Honore, posted by DAisym on September 6, 2007, at 20:04:40
>
> I think for me the yearning to touch base soon after a session has to do with merging during sessions and then ripping apart again. It is painful and lonely, more so at first and then it gets tolerable again. Weird that it isn't the other way around.Not weird at all. Not one bit weird. You described it quite well when you said it is like being ripped apart at first. So of course the pain is more right after the session than it would be if you went the weekend, for example, and by Sunday felt better from a Friday meeting.
RealMe
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:29:46
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » JoniS, posted by DAisym on September 6, 2007, at 12:54:07
Thanks Daisy. Stages of separation anxiety - I've learned something - it's more complicated than I thought.
Therapy hangover - that is funny.
I wish we all lived closer too.
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:35:19
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » JoniS, posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 17:29:19
RealMe
Sounds like that t relationship at Menningers was very special. I'm glad you had that.
You got me thinking - I'm not sure that I ever have felt really special to anyone. Oh wait, there is someone- do pooches count? Thats it! I'm special to my dogs!
How sad.
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:37:15
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » JoniS, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2007, at 13:24:42
Dinah,
I wish you knew a cure too.
It does say good things about the t relationship, doesnt it?
thanks
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:39:34
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy...., posted by Honore on September 6, 2007, at 17:50:02
Honore
Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it.
Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 22:45:26
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » RealMe, posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:35:19
I bet there have been people too. THINK--teachers, extended family????etc.
I know I was special to my Aunt Ella; I later found out when I was older that she wanted my mother to give me up to her. They had a son, and they could have no other children. Now, mind you I am not so sure I would have ever gone through college and grad school had I grown up with my aunt Ella and uncle John and cousin John. I think I would not have gone to college as they were from the old country and did not think it necessary. My uncle worked in the GM plant in Chicago, and my aunt was a sales clerk for SS Kresge 5 & 10 for those who are old enough to know (later became K-Mart).
On the other hand, it is likely I would not have suffered any abuse, sexual, physical, or mental. Sooooo....I think I keep the life I have inspite of what happened to me.
RealMe
Posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 22:57:12
In reply to Something about the day after therapy...., posted by JoniS on September 6, 2007, at 12:14:19
He called me about 5 minutes after he read the email. When my phone was ringing I realized thats what he would do. He was so thoughtful. He managed to show me that he cares, without telling me, or addressing my statement that I wish I meant more to him than I do. He just asked me what was wrong and reassured me that he has time to talk and even says he's glad I called. I was so emotional I cried quite a bit. He said that he understands that I feel passion and happiness, acceptance when I'm in t and so it's understandable that I would want that again. That really made me cry and when he asked me why I said because I don't want to feel that only 1 hour every week or 2. Then he took a long time to say that he believed I could have that. The problem is that in my marriage I feel none of that, especially since DH's affair 4 years ago. Dont trust him.
I am thankful for my T, but I really wish I didn't feel so deeply for him.
I agree with you, (I think - RealMe) that I wouldn't want my T to say I was more special than his spouse. Then my T wouldn't be so attractive. It's his character and his integrity that make me love him so much.
I wish I had the whole conversation recorded. He was very sensitive, thoughtful and caring.
This is hard.
Thanks for your posts everyone.
Posted by JoniS on September 7, 2007, at 7:06:18
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » JoniS, posted by sunnydays on September 6, 2007, at 19:46:57
Thanks Sunny, for your encouragement. I'm sure your T does not see you as annoying. He is prabably like mine and genuinely wants to help you. I am so thankful for people like them.
Posted by Wittgenstein on September 7, 2007, at 7:28:14
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy.... » sunnydays, posted by JoniS on September 7, 2007, at 7:06:18
JoniS,
What a lovely response from your T. I bet it must have made you feel good :)
I often get the post-session blues - sometimes it's worse than others depending on how the session goes (I've just come back from T - feel good).
I first go over everything in my head, usually while sitting on the train on my way home - cringe for having said certain things and feel annoyed with myself for having avoided other things... then I try to put myself back in that lovely comforting space with someone so understanding and empathetic - that feeling of being accepted, which I think for quite a few of us is the first time we've felt this way - a lovely safe feeling.
But then... I sometimes find myself doubting afterwards - was it an illusion - what does he really think under his caring exterior and then I worry and feel a need to touch base again. I often worry that my T doesn't really believe what I tell him or finds me ridiculous or pathetic (not that he has ever done anything to suggest this - it's just a fear) - I suppose a cycle of trust and distrust - I want to trust him and feel accepted but I suppose I still nag that it's all an illusion. Having our T's mean so much to us of course makes us vulnerable - but then again, without this level of need/dependence would we really be able to get the work done that needs to be done?
Take care,
Witti
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 19:35:11
In reply to Re: Something about the day after therapy...., posted by Wittgenstein on September 7, 2007, at 7:28:14
Witti
It seems to me that maybe you start to feel you are weak and pathetic and whatever else after therapy. I feel that way a lot, and surprise my self after feed back here that I can actually go back to therapy and laugh at myself. I have to trust my therapist; well I don't have to, but I like him and have a sense of him as being someone I can trust and who will not get angry with me. He has told me he hopes I can get angry with him as he recognizes it was not something okay with my last therapist.
RealMe (Oz)
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