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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 14:37:44
Hi everyone,
I posted a few times in the past under a different name but never really participated much (though I've lurked excessively for quite a while). Anyway, I've been feeling kind of lonely/in need of some community lately, so I thought I'd give this another try.
Anyway, my T is going on vacation for two weeks starting tomorrow. We had our last session before the break this morning. It went okay. We spent the first forty minutes talking about some problems (that's putting it lightly, really) I'm having with my boyfriend, and then, with five minutes left, he said, "I guess we haven't even had a chance to talk about my vacation." Ugh. Yeah. I said, "Yeah, well, I think you know that I'm not too happy about it." Of course he asked me to "say more about that"--so I somehow summoned the courage to tell him that I'm worried that I'll really miss him. This was a monumental effort for me. I have a lot of trouble admitting to people that I care about them, so for me to let him know in such explicit terms that he's important to me was terrifying and hugely embarrassing. He knows all this. He said, "That was a big risk" and looked kind of shocked and touched at the same time. But he didn't say anything else! I mean, okay, I wasn't really expecting him say, "Oh, yeah, I'll miss you, too," but he at least could have told me that what I'm feeling is normal, and that he understands, and that two weeks will be over before I know it. Some kind of reassurance, you know? We sat there for a minute in really awkward silence, and then he reminded me that he "will be unreachable" but that he left the number of a colleague on his voicemail if I need to talk to someone while he's gone ("though I doubt that will be necessary"). This really annoyed me. I KNOW that he's going to be unreachable--he had told me that a couple of times already. I felt totally infantilized. By this point we'd gone over by about six or seven minutes (which is pretty standard for us--but that's another issue) so I just said, "Okay. Well, see you on the 18th," and walked out. I wanted to cry. It's bad enough that I've gotten so attached to him that I really will miss him a lot--but his reaction to my admission of this was totally awful. Usually he's great. I don't know. Maybe I really took him by surprise by being so forward? How do your Ts react to stuff like this--being told that you miss them when they're not around, etc.? Should I expect more of him?
Posted by healing928 on July 31, 2008, at 14:54:33
In reply to Leaving on a bad note, posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 14:37:44
Well I had a falling out with my t, fired him, went to see someone else, but starting to see him again. He supported me all through this, but i couldn't deal with he attachment stuff and thought not having him would be better than having him a little. (He is going through some personal stuff and his schedule is very limited)
I tried to tell him about my attachment/dependence but he didn't understand the extent until i exploaded during his vacation. Even the weeks I wasn't seeing him he was available via email and phone, but vacation he was not. Anyway, from this whole experience, my advice is to be direct. I don't think t's understand the impact they have on us. It WILL be uncomfortable, but you need to be direct, so you can get everything out so you can explore coping skills for when he is not available.
Healing
Posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 15:11:57
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note, posted by healing928 on July 31, 2008, at 14:54:33
Thanks for your response, healing928. When you say he didn't understand the extent of your attachment until you exploded during his vacation--what exactly happened? And once he understood, what did he do differently? I think your advice (to be direct) is good. I'll try to be as candid as I can when I see him next time.
Posted by wishingstar on July 31, 2008, at 16:57:04
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note » healing928, posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 15:11:57
I'd feel hurt and disappointed by his reaction as well. You took a big leap and even though he commented that it was a big step, it sounds like you didnt feel emotionally supported in having done it. It makes it harder to do it again, at least for me. But good for you for being so honest. I'm sorry he wasnt able to be more supportive in that moment.
I've been with the same T for almost 2 years now. I have a lot of issues surrounding abandonment both from my childhood and a rather traumatic termination (if you want to call it that) from another T a few years ago. My current T knows all of this of course, but yet still never tells me she's going on vacation until the end of a session when we stop to schedule again. She'll just say "well, I'm going to be gone next week at the beach (or whatever), will the next Mon (my usual day) work for you?" I've told her I'd like a little more warning, even if it's just at the beginning of the session before the missed week, but it never happens. I think she really does understand that I/clients get attached to her and need her, but somehow she's not making the connection between that and her vacations etc. I hate it and it always is a huge reminder of the professional nature of our relationship, which makes trust harder for me. My T also only works 2 days a week, so sometimes we miss each other... like this week, I was out of town on my regular day, and she's gone on her other regular day, so I didnt get to see her.. definitely no advance warning on that. Ick.
I agree that being direct with him is the best plan. I think you may be right to guess that he was just surprised by what you said and that caused him to miss a potentially important moment. He needs to know that so he can hopefully fix it, for next time if nothing else.
Posted by Daisym on July 31, 2008, at 18:34:41
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note, posted by wishingstar on July 31, 2008, at 16:57:04
I don't think it is too much to expect that he would have reacted differently but I can sort of imagine the following thoughts running through his head -- "wow - that was brave of her, I wonder what made her tell me, out loud, right now? But gee, we only have a few minutes left - and I'm leaving for two weeks. So maybe we shouldn't open up all these feelings for me when I'm not going to be here...I'll acknowledge the risk and see where that goes." Telling him how it felt to you will be another risk, but an important one. Something to think about while he is gone is why is it so hard to admit missing someone? What happens if you care about someone and they know it?
I'm really surprised at any therapist, in this day and age, that doesn't get that clients worry when they go on vacation. You'd have to almost being living under a professional rock to not have heard about attachment, transition, etc. Even if you don't directly deal with these things in your type of therapy, it is still important to acknowledge the feelings in the room. I know lots of therapist don't want to "gratify" the client, etc. I believe that is short sighted.
I hope the next two weeks go well for you. Keep posting!
Posted by healing928 on July 31, 2008, at 19:17:19
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note » healing928, posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 15:11:57
Well I haven't been seeing him regularly all summer due to his personal problems, but the week before his vacation, i came in with a problem with a friend who is like family. Anyway, I felt he wasn't handling it correctly. But now I see it was something I didn't want to hear. So the session ends, i was angry from what he said, and it was like I will see you in two weeks and I will be on vacation. I left angry and he knew it. THat is when I found something he wrote on my disorder, and I felt like I was just a "project," but that was my abandonment issues and anger talking. I am not the only person he has treated for this disorder, and if he learned something from me, great. He agrees, we are all learning from each other. He made some mistakes, and he is aware of them, so t's aren't perfect. I didn't communicate how i was feeling in session, and waited until the session was over.
What did he do differently? I terminated therapy with him out of anger, but he was there during the whole process. I left for the wrong reasons, and we are starting up sessions again.
He is the only t I have ever been able to open up with, and he is willing to go the extra mile.
> Thanks for your response, healing928. When you say he didn't understand the extent of your attachment until you exploded during his vacation--what exactly happened? And once he understood, what did he do differently? I think your advice (to be direct) is good. I'll try to be as candid as I can when I see him next time.
Posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 19:37:35
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note, posted by wishingstar on July 31, 2008, at 16:57:04
Thanks, wishingstar. Yeah, you're right--I didn't feel emotionally supported at all! As I said, it's not like I expected him to reciprocate my feelings or anything (though of course that would have been nice!). I really just needed him to "normalize" them and tell me that he was happy I was able to share them with him. Instead I just felt like I freaked him out.
As for your T not telling you about her vacations until the last minute, that must be pretty rough, especially since you've already told her how it makes you feel. I dunno. Sometimes people--even our Ts, sadly--are just appallingly slow to catch on to things. I hope that she comes to understand in time.
> I'd feel hurt and disappointed by his reaction as well. You took a big leap and even though he commented that it was a big step, it sounds like you didnt feel emotionally supported in having done it. It makes it harder to do it again, at least for me. But good for you for being so honest. I'm sorry he wasnt able to be more supportive in that moment.
>
> I've been with the same T for almost 2 years now. I have a lot of issues surrounding abandonment both from my childhood and a rather traumatic termination (if you want to call it that) from another T a few years ago. My current T knows all of this of course, but yet still never tells me she's going on vacation until the end of a session when we stop to schedule again. She'll just say "well, I'm going to be gone next week at the beach (or whatever), will the next Mon (my usual day) work for you?" I've told her I'd like a little more warning, even if it's just at the beginning of the session before the missed week, but it never happens. I think she really does understand that I/clients get attached to her and need her, but somehow she's not making the connection between that and her vacations etc. I hate it and it always is a huge reminder of the professional nature of our relationship, which makes trust harder for me. My T also only works 2 days a week, so sometimes we miss each other... like this week, I was out of town on my regular day, and she's gone on her other regular day, so I didnt get to see her.. definitely no advance warning on that. Ick.
>
> I agree that being direct with him is the best plan. I think you may be right to guess that he was just surprised by what you said and that caused him to miss a potentially important moment. He needs to know that so he can hopefully fix it, for next time if nothing else.
Posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 19:53:33
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note, posted by Daisym on July 31, 2008, at 18:34:41
Thanks, Daisym. Your guess as to what might have been running through his mind is definitely reassuring, though I won't know for sure what he was thinking until I ask him during our next session. Thinking about what you said, actually, I can see how his reaction might really have been pretty gracious. If he had pushed me to say more about my feelings right then, with only a couple of minutes left, I guess I'd have felt even *more* vulnerable upon leaving, and even more unable to get through the next two weeks without him. I'm pretty sure that he's aware of the power of attachment, etc. in therapy--he does relational psychotherapy so a huge part of the work we do together involves examining all of the little (and not so little) things that come up in our relationship with one another.
As for why it's hard for me to admit to missing someone--well, first of all, when I attach to people, I attach very strongly. I'm often overcome with love for them and am kind of ashamed of the intensity of my feelings because I can't imagine that they could possibly be reciprocated. So basically I feel like all of my feelings are unrequited on some fundamental level and I hate to draw others' attention to the discrepancy between my feelings and theirs because, I don't know, it gives them the upper hand in some way. Plus, I worry that they'll find me pathetic. I don't know if this makes any sense. Clearly it's something I need to work on, though...
> I don't think it is too much to expect that he would have reacted differently but I can sort of imagine the following thoughts running through his head -- "wow - that was brave of her, I wonder what made her tell me, out loud, right now? But gee, we only have a few minutes left - and I'm leaving for two weeks. So maybe we shouldn't open up all these feelings for me when I'm not going to be here...I'll acknowledge the risk and see where that goes." Telling him how it felt to you will be another risk, but an important one. Something to think about while he is gone is why is it so hard to admit missing someone? What happens if you care about someone and they know it?
>
> I'm really surprised at any therapist, in this day and age, that doesn't get that clients worry when they go on vacation. You'd have to almost being living under a professional rock to not have heard about attachment, transition, etc. Even if you don't directly deal with these things in your type of therapy, it is still important to acknowledge the feelings in the room. I know lots of therapist don't want to "gratify" the client, etc. I believe that is short sighted.
>
> I hope the next two weeks go well for you. Keep posting!
Posted by sassyfrancesca on August 1, 2008, at 7:31:57
In reply to Re: Leaving on a bad note » Daisym, posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 19:53:33
Hi, sweetie: I understand, and your feelings aren't right or wrong...they just...ARE, and you should acknowledge them and honor them; not feel ashamed.
Unfortunately, i have been in love with my t for almost 5 years (too long to go into here)...and understand the feelings of attachment. Fortunately, my t is very open; we can (and do) talk about any and everything.
All we can do (I know it is SO scary) is be honest and authentic.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by backseatdriver on August 1, 2008, at 12:17:58
In reply to Leaving on a bad note, posted by Suedehead on July 31, 2008, at 14:37:44
Just wanted to chime in my agreement with the person who said he probably was surprised and didn't want to open up wounds with only a few minutes to go.
- bsd
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