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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
I would like to hear from anyone who is recovering from addictions. I didn't really have a drug of choice (I abused just about everything that I picked up). I have been able to abstain from Cocaine & Meth. However, I am now very attached to opiates/tranqs/alcohol. I developed a debilitating long-term psychosis-like state from the meth (paraniod delusions and such). My addictions have cost me several good jobs, just about all of my relationships, and my self-dignity. The depression that is left over drives me back to use, especially opiates. My mind just doesn't work the same way as it used to. I know that I can't go back into the same career because the stress of it drives me to use. How does one learn to know their limits after addiction? I'm grieving the loss of my past and I feel like such a loser.
Posted by antigua on March 15, 2005, at 9:46:55
In reply to Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
You aren't a loser, get that thought right out of your head. It's your addicition talking. It's not about strength of willpower, it's about something that has taken control of you that you have to fight.
I'm like you. I could become addicted to anything because I have an addictive nature and I have had some severe trauma in my past that I haven't been able to get over, but I'm working on it.
There is life after addicition and it's a d*mn fine one. But you didn't get this way in a single day so you can't expect there to be an easy answer. It's hard work.
It sounds so trite, but try to just take it one day at a time. If you haven't detoxed, get help w/that first. I went to an outpatient program for several months to gain my initial sobriety over alcohol. This was important to me because I could string a few days or weeks together on my own but I would always return to drinking. The consistency of the program gave me over 60 days when I had to walk out the door of that place. It hasn't been easy or clear sailing since then, but once you put some time together and give your mind a chance to heal from the craziness, you start to recognize the benefits.
Also, think about therapy if you haven't tried that route. For me, my drinking had everything to do w/my emotional problems. Dealing w/them made me understand why I was drinking and I have found other ways to deal w/the stress.
It's a long, hard process but if you really want to do it, you have to believe you can do it and really try.
Meetings, of course, are helpful for many.
If I can be of support, please let me know.
There is hope, though, there really is.
antigua
Posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 13:34:17
In reply to Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
All of what antigua said applied to me, too, except I did a few days of hospital detox just in case.
Addiction is a disease, a friend and an enemy. The addiction is telling you that you are washed up and will never get back into your career. It wants you to give up. Stress doesn't drive you to use - you use stress as an excuse to use.
Giving up drugs means *all* drugs. You can't get better if you are still putting mind altering chemicals in your body.
As for limits? One <insert drug here> is too many and a thousand is never enough. The limit for an addict is none, zero, nada, nil. Addiction doesn't go away and there is no current cure. That's why it's called 'recovering' and not 'recovered.'
Sorry if this is blunt, but step one is admitting you have a problem. These are things you need to know going in.
And - you are not a loser. The only losers in this sickness are the ones that quit trying. You don't need to mourn your past, you need to realize there is a future.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 13:38:23
In reply to Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
I was in recovery with a guy who's a crack addict. He was doing great, going to meetings, his ex would let him take the kids (after a drug test) and he got a house and a girlfriend.
Then he decided it wouldn't hurt to have a glass of wine with dinner. It wasn't long before he was back to crack and lost everything, and I haven't seen him since.
He had been clean for over 90 days.
Posted by antigua on March 16, 2005, at 16:37:19
In reply to Re: drug of choice » mynamehere, posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 13:38:23
Someone in my meeting the other night said he could handle the first drink, it was the ones that followed that were the problem and someone said, "It's the first drink that gets us into trouble." I believe he was right. I've had it pounded into my head (and I believe it) to do whatever you have to do to stay away from that first drink (occupying your mind, fight through the urge, etc.), instead of the moderation model. I was failure at that too!
antigua
Posted by mynamehere on March 22, 2005, at 22:00:25
In reply to Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
I appreciate all of your responses and I understand that we all come from different walks of life. I have been through multiple 30-day rehabilitation programs, near death experiences in the ICU, and more visits to the ER to admit.
What I meant by my question about knowing one's limits had to do with my possibly being bipolar. I had an extended extremely successful time in my life. Young, making tons of $$, and then I crashed. This pattern has become so set in my life that I don't know where to start. When I'm feeling good, I feel capable to take on these big-time jobs and then when I get down, I crash - usually in a career devestating way. I recognize that I'm young and I can always change careers, but I feel so suicidal. Things that used to feel very easy for me, are now impossible. I don't see how a normal life is possible anymore.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 23, 2005, at 12:16:34
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 22, 2005, at 22:00:25
It sounds like you need to work on getting the BPD under control.
Are you seeing someone for that?
Posted by mynamehere on March 28, 2005, at 11:02:04
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions » mynamehere, posted by AuntieMel on March 23, 2005, at 12:16:34
Thanks for all of your responses. Yes, I am on meds for the possibility of BP. The frustrating thing is that it's difficult to know whether I am truly bipolar because I've been using and drinking for so long. What I do know to be true is that certain substances do make me extremely manic..much moreso than other former drug buddies. I hope you all had a nice Easter.
> It sounds like you need to work on getting the BPD under control.
>
> Are you seeing someone for that?
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2005, at 12:06:54
In reply to Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 14, 2005, at 17:47:01
> How does one learn to know their limits after addiction? I'm grieving the loss of my past and I feel like such a loser.
One learns to know their limits by doing, not thinking.
"You can't think your way into a new way of acting. You must act your way into a new way of thinking."
You must behave differently to obtain different outcomes. That is the proof your brain will use, so it can think differently.
One of the most inspirational pieces I have, is this one. Author unknown.
I am Your Addiction.
I hate meetings. I hate Higher Powers. I hate anyone who has a program. To all who come in contact with me, I wish you death and I wish you suffering.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am the disease of addiction. Cunning, baffling and powerful, that's me. I have killed millions and I am pleased. I love to catch you with the element of surprise. I live, pretending I am your friend and lover. I have given you comfort, have I not? Wasn't I there when you were lonely? When you wanted to die, didn't you call me? I was there. I love to make you hurt. I love to make you cry. Better yet, I love when I make you so numb you can neither hurt nor cry. You can't feel anything at all. This is true glory. I will give you instant gratification, and all I ask of you is long-term suffering. I've been there for you, always. When things were going right in your life, you invited me. You said you didn't deserve these good things, and I was the only one who would agree with you. Together we were able to destroy all good things in your life.
People don't take me seriously. They take strokes seriously, heart attacks seriously. Even diabetes, they take seriously. Fools that they are, they don't know that without my help these things would not be made possible.
I am such a hated disease, and yet I do not come uninvited. You choose to have me. So many have chosen me over reality and peace.
More than you hate me, I hate all of you who have a twelve-step program. Your program, your meetings, your Higher Power. All weaken me and I can't function in the manner I am accustomed to!
Now I must lie here quietly. You don't see me, but I am growing, bigger than ever. When you only exist, I may live. When you live, I only exist. But I am here....and until we meet again, IF we meet again - I wish you death and suffering.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2005, at 12:10:04
In reply to Re: drug of choice » AuntieMel, posted by antigua on March 16, 2005, at 16:37:19
> Someone in my meeting the other night said he could handle the first drink, it was the ones that followed that were the problem and someone said, "It's the first drink that gets us into trouble." I believe he was right. I've had it pounded into my head (and I believe it) to do whatever you have to do to stay away from that first drink (occupying your mind, fight through the urge, etc.), instead of the moderation model. I was failure at that too!
> antiguaSubstitute your drug of choice into the following saying: "One (drink) is too many, and a thousand is never enough".
I have not taken that first (drink), now, for 7 years, 10 months, and 21 days.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2005, at 12:40:27
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions, posted by mynamehere on March 22, 2005, at 22:00:25
> Things that used to feel very easy for me, are now impossible. I don't see how a normal life is possible anymore.
Unreasonable expectations are going to lead to resentment and disappointment.
The central philosophy of recovery is to live one day at a time.
I've always loved hearing this, at meetings.
YESTERDAY.... TODAY and TOMORROW
There are two days in every week about which we should not worry, two days which should be kept free from fear and apprehension.
One of these days is YESTERDAY with its mistakes and cares, its faults and blunders, its aches and pains. YESTERDAY has passed forever beyond our control.
All the money in the world cannot bring back YESTERDAY. We cannot undo a single act we performed; we cannot erase a single word we said. YESTERDAY is gone.
The other day we should not worry about is TOMORROW with its possible adversities, its burdens, its large promise and poor performance. TOMORROW is also beyond our immediate control.
TOMORROW'S sun will rise, either in splendor or behind a mask of clouds - but it will rise. Until it does, we have no stake in TOMORROW, for it is as yet unborn.
This leaves only one day - TODAY - Any man can fight the battles of just one day. It is only when you and I add the burdens of those two awful eternities – YESTERDAY and TOMORROW that we break down.
It is not the experience of TODAY that drives men mad - it is remorse or bitterness for something which happened YESTERDAY and the dread of what TOMORROW may bring.
Let us, therefore, live but one day at a time.
Me again, down here.....The only time that you can affect, the only situation over which you have any input, is in this moment. That is not to say that one cannot plan for tomorrow. Plans are put into effect in the moment, the passage of nows that becomes your history.
Today is the tomorrow that you worried about yesterday.
If you become able to manage your bipolar, or whatever it is that goes awry under stress, then you can sustain a stable future. The stability, though, must be based on self-awareness. On internal senses of endurance, capability, resiliency, and so on. When you achieve a realistic balance, you will know. You will know what to do, and when to do it. You'll learn to react to stressors, by accomodating them. You don't have to be perfect to be successful. You do have to have a sense of what is possible, and what is not. And you need to be able to communicate with others about those possible things. And the impossible ones. To negotiate the boundary conditions.
What do you mean by "normal"? What expectations come with that word? I'm asking you to remove that word from your thinking, and see what is left with it gone. Quoting you, without that word, you could say, "I don't see how a life is possible anymore." That's exactly it. You have to figure out the possible in your life.
What you said, in introduction, leads me to believe that you have massive potential. What you lack, perhaps, is an internal guidance system. Maybe, you don't know how to say "No". I'm just speculating.....
What do you need, today. To get more peaceful. To get more observant. To get more self-aware. Today. One day at a time.
When it gets tougher, one hour at a time.
When it gets tougher still, one minute at a time.
I have lived one second at a time, and so can you.
Lar
Posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 10:33:49
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions » mynamehere, posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2005, at 12:06:54
you wrote;
Allow me to introduce myself. I am the disease of addiction. Cunning, baffling and powerful, that's me. I have killed millions and I am pleased. I love to catch you with the element of surprise. I live, pretending I am your friend and lover. I have given you comfort, have I not? Wasn't I there when you were lonely? When you wanted to die, didn't you call me? I was there. I love to make you hurt. I love to make you cry. Better yet, I love when I make you so numb you can neither hurt nor cry. You can't feel anything at all. This is true glory. I will give you instant gratification, and all I ask of you is long-term suffering. I've been there for you, always. When things were going right in your life, you invited me. You said you didn't deserve these good things, and I was the only one who would agree with you. Together we were able to destroy all good things in your life.People don't take me seriously. They take strokes seriously, heart attacks seriously. Even diabetes, they take seriously. Fools that they are, they don't know that without my help these things would not be made possible."
And all I can do is cry, because everything in that is what my addicted significant other did to me before trying to strangle me while drunk in a hotel room in New Orleans on the second night of our five day-planned mini-vacation. I flew home that night and am now homeless. An addicted person and a co-dependent; I was trying to reform- he wasn't.
His addictions to coke and alcohol have not even let him apologize to me at all- about hurting me, scaring me, ending the relationship, or making me homeless as I am now too scared to stay in my house becuase he has said violence is acceptable in his opinion.
For any of you who ever want to be able to love- please try to get out from under your addictions...at some point the regrets will come and you will know that you destroyed someone like me.....
I mean that generally- not to anyone specifically...crap, I'm sorry if what I said could be construed as uncivil...
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2005, at 11:12:25
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions » Larry Hoover, posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 10:33:49
> And all I can do is cry, because everything in that is what my addicted significant other did to me before trying to strangle me while drunk in a hotel room in New Orleans on the second night of our five day-planned mini-vacation. I flew home that night and am now homeless. An addicted person and a co-dependent; I was trying to reform- he wasn't.
>
> His addictions to coke and alcohol have not even let him apologize to me at all- about hurting me, scaring me, ending the relationship, or making me homeless as I am now too scared to stay in my house becuase he has said violence is acceptable in his opinion.
>
> For any of you who ever want to be able to love- please try to get out from under your addictions...at some point the regrets will come and you will know that you destroyed someone like me.....
>
> I mean that generally- not to anyone specifically...crap, I'm sorry if what I said could be construed as uncivil...I'm so sorry reality has been so harsh to you.
I may venture to say that a homeless person with your clear perception of the issues is in a better place than someone with a home, in denial.
I pray that you soon find the supports you need to start over.
Do take care. And do let us know how you make out.
Lar
Posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 13:20:27
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2005, at 11:12:25
Lar,
Thank you so much for just validating the fact that I had posted... that alone means so much.
I have just had two phone calls. One relieving one- I got an approval to move in a new apartment on Saturday. The other was confusing, hopeful, and scary all at once. My significant other called, made all of the apologies he had neglected for the past four days, and said that he is quitting drinking (he is a binge drinker; he gives himself permission to "make a night out of it" and loses control of his anger). He also said that he wants to try living separately, to go to couples counselling together, and probably go to individual counselling, too.
I know that promises made by someone capable of these binges can be suspect, thus the trepidation I feel. But I am safe now. The tears in his voice while he told me how ashamed of himself he was did convnce me that he is no longer angry and "out to get me". He is living with his mother for the summer, at least, he said. I have a good relationship with his mother.
Say lots of prayers for me while I try to puzzle all of this out. I am mostly trying to figure out if it could ever possibly work if I work on the co-dependent part of what's wrong with me, while he focusses on WHY he feels the need to binge.
Sometimes two wrongs can't make a right, but sometimes a blind person and a deaf person can mend a fence. I just don't know which two we are.
-sunny10
Posted by partlycloudy on April 13, 2005, at 14:57:49
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions, posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 13:20:27
I am so sorry that you had to go through this, Sunny. Please know that I'm thinking of you and I'm here if you ever need to vent.
pc, out-of-practice alcoholic and way-long-past codependent.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2005, at 16:23:32
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions, posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 13:20:27
> Lar,
>
> Thank you so much for just validating the fact that I had posted... that alone means so much.You're very welcome.
> I have just had two phone calls. One relieving one- I got an approval to move in a new apartment on Saturday.
That is exactly what I was talking about....awareness and clear thinking, and you've already settled your housing issue.
> The other was confusing, hopeful, and scary all at once.
You can't stop feeling the way you do. There is no single right answer. You can't address your need for safety and your need to work out this relationship (somehow) with the very same strategies.
> I know that promises made by someone capable of these binges can be suspect, thus the trepidation I feel.
Yes, he's sober now, when he makes the apologies and promises.
> Say lots of prayers for me while I try to puzzle all of this out.
I'll start with this one, the People version of a familiar refrain:
God, grant me the serenity,
To accept the people I cannot change,
The courage to change the ones I can,
And the wisdom to know that one is me.> I am mostly trying to figure out if it could ever possibly work if I work on the co-dependent part of what's wrong with me, while he focusses on WHY he feels the need to binge.
I don't think there's a crystal ball big enough to answer that. However, looking back at that prayer, you've certainly got a topic to consider (co-dependency).
> Sometimes two wrongs can't make a right, but sometimes a blind person and a deaf person can mend a fence. I just don't know which two we are.
>
> -sunny10Time. Some things need time. You can't answer that question today, so let it leave your mind. You'll know the answer, in due time.
I'm glad you found a place so soon.
I'll give you one of my trademarked Bearhugs®
{{{{{{{{{Sunny}}}}}}}}}
Lar
Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 10:03:33
In reply to Re: Life After Addictions » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on April 13, 2005, at 16:23:32
yes, I repeat the Serenity Prayer often... I have gotten to at least the point where I understand that the People version is a co-dependent joke... we can only ever change ourselves.
I consider myself to have a substance abuse problem, too... the substances being the endorphins and (it just left my mind.. the peaceful one? starts with an "o", oxytocins, I think...something like that)brought on by sex and intimacy in one on one relationships. I believe they call it Love Addiction.
So I need to find ways to give myself those "happy and peaceful" chemicals, rather than relying on a relationship with someone else to provide it...
Any ideas??? Guess I have to find another kind of book to learn from... does the work ever end?
Sometimes it is hard not to feel angry that my parents created me... some people actually had normal, loving parents... it is hard to learn to love and accept love in healthy ways (like with boundaries) late in life.
I am a little discouraged at the moment because I feel like the mental health system was quick to find the Major Depressive Disorder, and dispense meds and "coping skills", but they never even touched the underlying issues and basically told me not to "dwell on the past"- just "do as I say" and all will be well. Coping only works until I'm exhausted with the effort of "acting like I'm happy". Then, the exhaustion brings depression back in full force and I am even incapable of using the "skills" at all. So how come the "and you will become happy" part has never kicked in like they all promised it would if I acted that way?????
Okay, I know, you guys don't have the answers either... just venting... I'm just tired and frustrated, I guess.
Posted by antigua on April 18, 2005, at 18:22:13
In reply to Re: drug of choice » antigua, posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2005, at 12:10:04
I'm impressed, or at least very happy for you. The longest I've made it is 10 months straight, but that doesn't keep me from trying again every day.
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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