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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
i had a great christmas weekend. i met some cool people and hung out with some other people i already knew who were cool. a good time was had, mostly. some nagging thoughts in the back of my mind... i'm not cute enough for the guy i was visiting. i'm not his type. he pitied me so he put up with me. i met another guy there and i have a big crush on him now but i'm not his type either.
i always like people who are either a) jerks or b) out of my league.
new years rolled around and i was miserable. lonely.
then i found out everyone else under the sun got to kiss someone on new years. the only time ive ever kissed anyone on new years was when i coerced my exgf into it. we were at a friend's family's house and she was too ashamed to do it.
great for the self esteem.
t appt today. today i hated her and i liked her all in the same session. i liked her because she was on my side, but hated her because she reminded me how my parents treat my sister so much differently than they treat me. she has so much more than i ever had. i worked for everything i got. she gets everything she wants. she has better schools. she gets to go to college. etc. my parents loved me very much. but they had a really warped sense of how to raise a child back then.
thanks for reminding me. i was doing fine forgetting about it.
she told me i needed to make an effort to intiiate plans to go out with people to overcome social anxiety. that i can't rely on being asked places. she's only saying that because no one ever asks me to go places. no one likes to hang out with the weird fat girl who likes to wear big boots and fishnets. no one ever walks up to a girl like me in public and strikes up a conversation with me. no one ever asks for my number. no one likes the fat girl who dresses funny.
i'm just not beautiful. i've accepted that. that's why i'm on the internet. people don't care (as much) on the internet. or you can hook them with your personality so they don't mind so much that you're ugly. sometimes i cna get away with being "cute." but that's not to say that's good enough in public.
she just doesn't get it. no one likes the ugly girl. and i'm the ugly girl. it's not that i haven't tried to make friends outside of the internet. it's that it NEVER FREAKING WORKS.
i wish i wasn't an ugly girl.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:03
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
hey. i prefer the internet to irl too. i get very self-conscious about my weight... and yeah... about the way i dress... and about scars from SI... and i prefer the internet where there isn't a 'bodily' factor... people get to know you for your thoughts and feelings and what you say and the way you see things etc... and for me... those are the most important things about people. and i prefer to 'see' people this way than the other.. and i prefer other people to 'see' me this way rather than the other too..
so i think i understand you there.
is it possible...
that other people don't see you the way you see yourself / the way you think they see you.
where you see a 'fat girl' wearing clothes that other people won't like or whatever... that they see your personality and actually like you as a person... and if there is anything 'wrong' then it is to do with the way you see yourself so that other people see you as lacking in self confidence and putting yourself down?
that maybe... if you had a little more confidence in yourself... and were a little happier in yourself... then those people who you find attractive... might get to know the you we see on the boards and find you just as attractive as you find them?
possible?
i hate christmas :-(
seems that it brings family stuff up for a lot of people :-(
Posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:46
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
I feel the same way. Today when I went up to my son's school, a bunch of moms were gathered together talking. And I really wanted to join them. But I know I'm fat, and I dress oddly. And I was too scared to get out of my car because I was sure they wouldn't want to have anything to do with me.
I sometimes suspect that I am rather rude in my attempts to spare other people me.
I know it's not really pc to say so, but I think looks do matter in this society. And I say that as a fat ugly rather oddly dressing person.
But sometimes I wonder how much it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
And sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't give in and dress like everyone else. But honestly, I feel really really freakish when I dress like everyone else. Like it's not bad enough I'm odd, but I'm trying to pass as normal. Isn't that somehow worse?
I'm sorry. My attitude isn't very positive. And I don't necessarily believe that other people who are plain and overweight are socially unacceptable. Just me. But I do understand other people who feel the same way about themselves.
FWIW, I don't think you're ugly at all.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 3, 2006, at 21:00:19
In reply to Re: bad day » ghost, posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:46
> And I really wanted to join them. But I know I'm fat, and I dress oddly. And I was too scared to get out of my car because I was sure they wouldn't want to have anything to do with me.
> I sometimes suspect that I am rather rude in my attempts to spare other people me.
me too. my flatmates can be having a party... and i walk in the door and go to my room and shut the door because i want to spare them my presence :-(
and then i wonder why i am lonely sometimes...
though... i think i am also appreciating...
that i do prefer to keep fairly much to myself. quality over quantity of interactions... i'd rather babble than talk to most people irl... and i'd rather be my myslef then around people who i'm not much enjoying their company most of the time...
but yeah...
social anxiety...
sometimes i really want to join people...
but...
i don't want them to just wish i'd go away :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on January 3, 2006, at 21:04:52
In reply to Re: bad day » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 3, 2006, at 21:00:19
i have one friend... who goes on about how i'd be 'alright looking' if i made more of an effort...
to wear feminine clothes...
to wear make-up...but 'alright looking' in what sense?
for the people who are appraising me sexually?i don't think i want that...
i'm sure there is a happy medium...
but looks really aren't all that important to me...
and really...
i want to meet people who feel the same and accept me for whats on the inside...
otherwise...
you never know whether people do see what is on the inside...
you never know whether people care about what is on the inside...the plight of the beautiful person.
really.
my friend is stunning...
and she dresses up to it.
and what does it buy her?
a bunch of superficial guys who use her for her body and typically go on to abuse her...
she doesn't see the pattern...
but i do.
and i wouldn't want that
i'd rather be me...
Posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 21:10:36
In reply to Re: bad day » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 3, 2006, at 21:00:19
> me too. my flatmates can be having a party... and i walk in the door and go to my room and shut the door because i want to spare them my presence :-(
>But you have a nice presence! IRL too I'll bet ;)
>
> but yeah...
>
> social anxiety...
>
> sometimes i really want to join people...
> but...
> i don't want them to just wish i'd go away :-(
>
>They wouldnt Alex! Unless you bit them :)
Posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 21:20:48
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
>>she told me i needed to make an effort to intiiate plans to go out with people to overcome social anxiety.
I think thats true, I tend to be an initiater and when people don't recipricate I find it frustrating, when the other person does't recipricate I take that as a lack of interest.
>>that i can't rely on being asked places. she's only saying that because no one ever asks me to go places. no one likes to hang out with the weird fat girl who likes to wear big boots and fishnets. no one ever walks up to a girl like me in public and strikes up a conversation with me. no one ever asks for my number. no one likes the fat girl who dresses funny.
Its also about presentation (I mean attitude), if you present yourself as open to people, with a smile etc they are more likely to be open to you. I know we have a shallow society but I don't believe that everyone is that shallow that they judge people solely by thier apperance. Could you look for people who have the same style as you? Maybe you could start a conversation with someone?
Im really sorry you feel so bad :(
Posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 21:26:19
In reply to Re: bad day » ghost, posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:46
>>But sometimes I wonder how much it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
It probably has a part in it.
>>And sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't give in and dress like everyone else. But honestly, I feel really really freakish when I dress like everyone else. Like it's not bad enough I'm odd, but I'm trying to pass as normal. Isn't that somehow worse?Im sure you don't look freakish! You just feel strange because you are not used to it. I imagine it would make things easier to mold with society, not that I think people should mold...but...it might be easier.
Posted by fallsfall on January 3, 2006, at 22:11:56
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
You are not ugly. I know this for a fact.
But I really don't care, even if you were ugly. I would go for ice cream anytime.
Posted by annierose on January 3, 2006, at 22:16:26
In reply to Re: bad day » ghost, posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:46
You are not fat and ugly and you don't dress freakish! Not at all. But, having said that, I totally get the mom thing. Like you, I do not fit in my neighborhood, and my individually stands out. These moms know each other from grade school for goodness sake, wear the same 10 pieces of clothing (w/proper labels) and are carbon copies of one another. So I do understand the not wanting to get out of your car and approach them. I will say that I am getting better at it, after 2 years of therapy. I don't want to be their friend, but I'm not going to hide away from them either. I'll say "hello" and move on.
It's so bad that my 12 year old was told on the school bus, "Oh Susie, (insert derogatory tone) I see you are wearing last seasons Pumas (sneakers)". Silly me, I didn't even know that sneakers had seasons and shame on me for letting my daughter leave the house in perfectly good shoes that are already passe. I told my daughter to get over it. These kids need a real problem.
Dinah, you are beautiful. Maybe you need to look into your child's eyes and see your beauty reflected in them.
Posted by fallsfall on January 3, 2006, at 22:16:57
In reply to Re: bad day » ghost, posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:46
You're not ugly. You're Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 22:54:15
In reply to Re: bad day » Dinah, posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 21:26:19
I'm not sure it's "just" that I'm not used to those clothes. :)
Last summer I decided to try the "uniform". Capri pants, a sleeveless buttoned top, and heeless sandles. I studied the look carefully for the nuances that usually elude me. I didn't buy the sandles, but I did buy the top and capris. Well, I had to sew up the buttons on the top, because buttoned tops are a no no for a person with my build (grin). I looked utterly ridiculous. I now only wear that outfit when I don't intend to see anyone, and I should just toss it. With my basic shape, and my huge calves, and my knock knees, I closely resembled a Christmas tree ornament in shape. One of those weird shaped Christmas ornaments?
I'm glad I didn't try the sandals. I have abnormally high arches and tend to walk out of shoes with heels. I'd have killed myself in those sandals.
Maybe if I lost fifty or sixty pounds...
Posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 23:14:04
In reply to Re: bad day » LegWarmers, posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 22:54:15
> I'm not sure it's "just" that I'm not used to those clothes. :)
>
> Last summer I decided to try the "uniform". Capri pants, a sleeveless buttoned top, and heeless sandles. I studied the look carefully for the nuances that usually elude me. I didn't buy the sandles, but I did buy the top and capris. Well, I had to sew up the buttons on the top, because buttoned tops are a no no for a person with my build (grin). I looked utterly ridiculous.
Im sure you didn't!>I now only wear that outfit when I don't intend to see anyone, and I should just toss it. With my basic shape, and my huge calves, and my knock knees, I closely resembled a Christmas tree ornament in shape. One of those weird shaped Christmas ornaments?
I don't believe you!
>
> I'm glad I didn't try the sandals. I have abnormally high arches and tend to walk out of shoes with heels. I'd have killed myself in those sandals.Then they werent for you,
It sounds like you have your style and thats great! I didn't mean to sound like I thought you should change. We are our own worst enemies and it sounds like you are. No one judges us as harshly as we do ourselves. You are not ugly, and you do not look like a christmas tree ornament!
Posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 1:13:16
In reply to Re: bad day » Dinah, posted by LegWarmers on January 3, 2006, at 23:14:04
I'm sorry you felt so bad today Ghost. I think there is some wisdom in this thread about projecting how you feel outward so people don't approach or appreciate you like we do.
I think everyone should be comfortable with their own style but should also be aware of the "risks" of their style. If you really want to be main stream you have to make an effort to be that. I really do think that most people get use to another's appearance pretty quickly and it stops being an issue once they get to know the person behind the costume. And I think many of us wear costumes as part of our emotional armor -- we have something to point to instead of "just" ourselves if people mistreat us or whatever. For me, my costume is usually a suit with heels. It puts me in the "take charge" role and when I walk in a room, people who don't know me will assume I *am* in charge. It is a way of keeping myself safe, in front of the room instead of part of it.
I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that no matter what you look like, some group is going to think you aren't one of them. And isn't that sad.
Posted by B2chica on January 4, 2006, at 11:21:38
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
you're NOT an ugly girl...i just KNOW it!
you are beautiful, caring, kind hearted, sweet and i know you are a cutie.
NO guy or girl is out of your league! got it?!you don't deserve them!
b2c
Posted by LegWarmers on January 4, 2006, at 12:05:06
In reply to Re: bad day, posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 1:13:16
> I'm sorry you felt so bad today Ghost. I think there is some wisdom in this thread about projecting how you feel outward so people don't approach or appreciate you like we do.
Its so true, when I am in a bad mood I get very differnet responses from people IRL and I know it is because of my affect and how it is radiating outwards to them. Our moods and facial expressions can make or break a hello from a stranger
> I think everyone should be comfortable with their own style but should also be aware of the "risks" of their style. If you really want to be main stream you have to make an effort to be that. I really do think that most people get use to another's appearance pretty quickly and it stops being an issue once they get to know the person behind the costume. And I think many of us wear costumes as part of our emotional armor -- we have something to point to instead of "just" ourselves if people mistreat us or whatever. For me, my costume is usually a suit with heels. It puts me in the "take charge" role and when I walk in a room, people who don't know me will assume I *am* in charge. It is a way of keeping myself safe, in front of the room instead of part of it.
>
> I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that no matter what you look like, some group is going to think you aren't one of them. And isn't that sad.
well said!
Posted by 10derHeart on January 12, 2006, at 18:27:04
In reply to bad day, posted by ghost on January 3, 2006, at 20:30:07
>>..she's only saying that because no one ever asks me to go places. no one likes to hang out with the weird fat girl who likes to wear big boots and fishnets. no one ever walks up to a girl like me in public and strikes up a conversation with me. no one ever asks for my number. no one likes the fat girl who dresses funny<<
I would ask you to go places.
Some of my favorite people are fat, large, big, overweight, obese...pick a word....any word you prefer.... and that list includes ME.
And you know what? I *like* me. I like my friends who are bigger than average in size. I don't care. I forget their size, their thighs, their weight, their (my) double chin....blah, blah, blah when I talk to tham and laugh with them and listen and look them in the eye. I really do. If you are seeing someone, truly *seeing* them, you can't be also looking at the outer shell. It ceases to be possible, in my experience.
Big boots and fishnets? Why not? I'm intrigued, not repulsed. I'm curious, not made uncomfortable.
Ugly. Hmmm. Yeah, society has those standards. We're suseptible to them. Me, too. But it's a choice. What's real ugliness? Rejection, exclusion, cruelty, insensitivity, unkindness - there the real ugliness lies. Seeing those things makes me feel ill.....not the contours of someone's face or body. Sounds to me like there's great beauty in you and the ugliness is coming toward you FROM those who are too scared to be accepting, kind, inclusive and sensitive. No matter, Ghost, you keep on striving till you find different people. How sad for those who pass you by...very sad for them to miss out on knowing Ghost.
I am a person who'd be very likely to strike up a conversation with you in public. I tend to focus on those who aren't like me - younger, older, fatter, thinner, richer, poorer hygiene, crazier {wink - that one's hard to find} etc., maybe because...I dunno. It's interesting, stimulating. Keeps me in tune with the human race as a WHOLE, not just my little, comfy segment who dress, talk act and believe just as I do. (Babble has actually helped me be more like that, too, with the differences that aren't physical.)
One of the fears I battle is that I'll overwhelm a stranger some day with my tendency to connect with everyone, everwhere. Perhaps I'm a bit disconcerting to others, 'cause I can be so friendly and open...? Ah, we each have something, don't we?
Ghost, I don't mean to discount your very real, life experiences, or minimize the pain. At ALL. I know it happens . Dinah's right - our society does care about looks. And the way that translates into behavior and the resulting hurt feelings sometimes just...well, it sucks. Totally. I know. As I've gotten older, gained weight, and gained fat where it oughtn't be, people (SOME) do treat me differently. They do, and it hurts - but more IF I dwell on it.
My point is...I'd talk to you. There are many others like me. I know it must seem like there aren't, but it's true. You hang in there. Smile at strangers a tiny bit if you can. You're young - don't give up on humans as a group. There's love and acceptance out there.
Wish I could go hang out somewhere with you right now....maybe laugh and be silly and take each other's minds off of our sadness and past stuff...sounds good to me. B2 will join us....more, too, I'll bet. (((ghost)))
This is the end of the thread.
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