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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
See my thread above if you don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about!
So I fearfully went to see my pdoc tonight, questions and some writing in hand.
I was shaking so hard, and wouldn't sit down, and was afraid I couldn't do it.
Asked him straight out if he was going to terminate me/refer me out. Absolutely not, he said. I asked him to promise me that if he does decide to do this that he won't do it abruptly and will give me the chance to work through the abandonment issue with him first. He said he would, that he wouldn't do it any other way; that's the way he practices.
I asked if he was trained and experienced in dealing with woman with csa issues and he said yes.
On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the most difficult for him, I rate a 5. How diplomatic.
And when asked what he thought was my biggest problem, he said, surprise!, it's that my intense feelings about the past get in the way of living a complete life today. Duh, is all I can say to that one.
He lost ground when I asked why he wouldn't see me or return my calls last week. He was busy, he said, but I told him that he had made a conscious decision to ignore a patient who he so obviously knew was suffering. Didn't get an answer on that one. While I didn't press him, I am not going to let him get away with that one.
He's like slippery eel, winding his way through our conversations, finding ways to take no responsibility for any parts of our interactions and any responses I may have. But I think this perception is me wanting him (my father) to take responsibility for his actions.
Then we went on to discuss my anger, and how I seem to be able to express it with him better than anyone else. He promised me that his office is a safe place for me to let the fear and anger out and pointed out that I had already begun to do so. He also pointed out that I was willing to stand up for myself in an articulate way, and that I was making huge progress.
He skirts around the issue of whether he cares (I think he thinks it's irrelevant, and doesn't build trust that way.)
I think he sees the therapy as my responsibility 1000%, and in this relationship he is right.
So, I don't know exactly how I feel about all this. I definitely feel better he isn't terminating me, and I can see why I so was so terrified that he would, and how part of that was my irrational self playing to old feelings.
No, I do feel better. I feel like I know more of what I'm getting into, and if he's not right for me, I can find another person. I WILL NOT beat my head against the wall, trying to get him to see things my way. But that doesn't mean I'm letting him off the hook.
He thinks that what we were talking about last time precipitated my crisis. He was pointing out that it was my father's failings and not my own that led to the abuse, and I got quite upset. But, as he says, I made it through it a stronger person and he will have to be more careful about when he hits my "hot" buttons, that maybe he pushed too hard. He has a tendency to do that, but that's what I feel like I need. To confront things, and not get a pat on the back for how tough it is. I get all that from my T and I'm very happy she's there. But he has value too.
So thanks for everyone's support.
antigua
Posted by Maria01 on July 17, 2007, at 23:04:31
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
Good on you for calling him out Re: not handling your calls even though you made it clear you were in distress. People need to be held accoutable for their behaviour, regardless of who they are.
Bravo!
Posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 23:37:51
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc, posted by Maria01 on July 17, 2007, at 23:04:31
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2007, at 23:55:24
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
I think you did very well, and now have a better idea of what his approach will be.
And I'm glad that you find value in it. In the end, that's the important thing.
Posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 0:59:44
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
He thinks that what we were talking about last time precipitated my crisis. He was pointing out that it was my father's failings and not my own that led to the abuse, and I got quite upset.
****This makes sense to me. It was "easier" somehow to put your anger and fears into him instead of your father. I also think that your fears of termination mirror the old fears of abandonment - with good reason. I hate transference!
But, as he says, I made it through it a stronger person and he will have to be more careful about when he hits my "hot" buttons, that maybe he pushed too hard.
****I'm glad he said that, it will be important to get the intensity right most of the time. If he pushes too hard, it might make you melt down - I remember when that happened before. I know you are a strong person but I still worry.
He has a tendency to do that, but that's what I feel like I need. To confront things, and not get a pat on the back for how tough it is. I get all that from my T and I'm very happy she's there. But he has value too.
******I'm a little worried about this. I know you want to work hard and you are. But I'm concerned you are somehow unconsciously punishing your little girl by forcing her (yourself) to confront all these hard things and sort of "buck up" around them. This is all very tough and it is OK to get support and encouragement. I know there is value in doing the really hard stuff. But there is value in the security of the relationship too.
I'm so impressed with all the questions you ask. I'm glad you are feeling better.
Posted by B2chica on July 18, 2007, at 7:59:15
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
wow a3. that sounds like a Very productive session with him, i just can't say how many steps i feel like you've gained from what you've written. I'm SO very proud of you! and you WERE very articulate! KEEP THIS UP.
and i am mostly VERY happy for you that he is NOT slithering out of your relationship and is sticking with you...this guy might be worth the chance afterall ;^)((((((((((cares to you)))))))))))
b2c.
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 12:14:35
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » antigua3, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2007, at 23:55:24
Thanks Dinah, that meant a lot to me.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 12:17:01
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc, posted by B2chica on July 18, 2007, at 7:59:15
I like your use of the word "slithering," it seems to fit my situation w/the pdoc. Today I called and left him a message that I thought his "I was too busy" to see me or call me was a cop out, and very unprofessional and cruel at the least.
But I said it nicely. Does that count???
thanks,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 12:30:58
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc, posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 0:59:44
> ****It was "easier" somehow to put your anger and fears into him instead of your father. I also think that your fears of termination mirror the old fears of abandonment - with good reason. I hate transference!
Oh yes, he is going to be the recipient of a lot of grief from me, but he says he can handle it.
>
>
> it will be important to get the intensity right most of the time. If he pushes too hard, it might make you melt down - I remember when that happened before. I know you are a strong person but I still worry.thanks for your concern, but I didn't really think him just stating the facts that the abuse was due to my father's failings and not my own would set me off like that. Like I said, I felt like he was defending my father. He said since my reaction was so severe that maybe we should slide (or slither as B2chica would say) over to another area before we return to that. So I have to watch out. I've discussed the same issue endlessly with my T and have never had such an intense reaction.
>
> ******I'm a little worried about this. I know you want to work hard and you are. But I'm concerned you are somehow unconsciously punishing your little girl by forcing her (yourself) to confront all these hard things and sort of "buck up" around them. This is all very tough and it is OK to get support and encouragement. I know there is value in doing the really hard stuff. But there is value in the security of the relationship too.
>
Hadn't thought about what this might mean in terms of my little girls, who don't really exist anymore, at least not separately. But you've made a great point. I know I'm walking a dangerous line here, I really know that, and I will try to be extra careful. I made it through this crisis, but I am still very concerned about how he will respond to future ones. I always put on a little extra armour when I see him, and I do have my T.I will not be burned twice. It's just hard sometimes to know when it's coming!But I learned something from this recent experience with him, but the cost was high and I'll try to remember that. If not, remind me!
thanks for your support,
antigua>>
Posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 13:25:09
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » DAisym, posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 12:30:58
"thanks for your concern, but I didn't really think him just stating the facts that the abuse was due to my father's failings and not my own would set me off like that. Like I said, I felt like he was defending my father."
"He thinks that what we were talking about last time precipitated my crisis. He was pointing out that it was my father's failings and not my own that led to the abuse, and I got quite upset."
Antigua, tell me to back off if you need to...These two sentences in this thread strike me hard -- you are consistent in saying "and not my own" but then you go on to say "I felt like he was defending my father." Somehow I miss seeing how he is defending you father, when he clearly says it was his failing - but obviously I didn't hear the whole conversation.
In my own situation, I hate it when I feel the need to defend my dad because my therapist says something so brutally clear like, "he's shame, not yours." I always immediately protest, "but...I" and then I get angry that I have to defend my dad to my therapist, etc. etc. It isn't exactly the same as when you felt but it gets to me.
One thing that is sometimes helpful for me is the conversation about "why?" I want to know why this happened, what made him do all these things. My therapist understands the why but he usually asks, "what would be a good enough reason?" And the honest answer is, "nothing." So I know that even as we work to understand all of it, he won't come to the conclusion that it was "OK because" -- and that is important to me.
I'm rattled this morning so this post might be so out in left field. My intention is to be supportive, as always. I definitely need to sit on your deck today.
Posted by JoniS on July 18, 2007, at 13:53:11
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
I am glad to see your update. I was concerned about what was going on there. It has been shocking to me to hear of different people being dropped by their T or pdoc. I am happy for you that that is not the case. And like everyone said before me, I think you were strong and brave to speak up and come right out with your questions and concerns about his behavior. It sounds like you ard doing some good work with him (even though you didn't get an explanation as to why no call). Maybe later he'll get back to explaining more of his behavior to you.
Good Work! :-)
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 14:48:51
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » antigua3, posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 13:25:09
I never want you to back off, Daisy, because you always point out something I need to think about.
"Somehow I miss seeing how he is defending you father, when he clearly says it was his failing - but obviously I didn't hear the whole conversation"
I felt like my pdoc was defending him by saying his faults were reason enough for me to accept the abuse, and therefore it wasn't so bad, etc., which sends me into a spiral of denial that anything did happen.
I guess I was the one defending my father, not him. I can't seem to accept or deal with the horror and/or anger of it. And the fear.
I pretend "Why" doesn't bother me, because I know enough about my father's past that I understand what a disturbed person he was. But you know what? I'm not over feeling like it's my fault, that if I had been important enough to him, he would never have done it. Does that make any sense?
What a mess I am. I think way too much, and rationalize, but never get close enough to the feelings.
It's too hot here to sit on the deck, but my husband's pond with the fish is in the shade so we could sit there and cry together (not that I want you to cry!). That's what I feel like, if I'm honest with myself, that just a little inkling of how horrible he was is sinking into my consciousness, and on some level it's a reflection of my own self-worth. Wrong, I know.
take care,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 14:52:16
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc, posted by JoniS on July 18, 2007, at 13:53:11
I won't ever get an explanation--he's not the type. He's young and arrogant, and he will probably be a good pdoc one day, but he needs to learn some bedside manners. He would never agree. Heis very good at keeping himself out of this, and this little part of me wants to push him to admit things. I know it's my problem with my father, but there still is an element of truth about him that I see and don't like.
thanks for your kind words,
antigua
Posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 15:43:52
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » DAisym, posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 14:48:51
"I pretend "Why" doesn't bother me, because I know enough about my father's past that I understand what a disturbed person he was. But you know what? I'm not over feeling like it's my fault, that if I had been important enough to him, he would never have done it. Does that make any sense?"
****The fact that you feel like this makes perfect sense to me, it echoes my own thoughts about the whole thing. I could give you the intellectual argument about how it is never the child's fault, it is up to the parent to hold the line, but since I buy it for everyone but myself, I don't see you buying it either. The truth is that we did want to be loved by our dads and there was something to be gained by being their "favorite" if you will. My therapist tells me that all little girls want this and it is not only OK but important that they get it in the appropriate safe way. He also just asks questions sometimes and the one that usually gets through is this,"even if you worked super hard to be special to your dad, how could you have known that it would lead to sex? You didn't even know what sex was."
"That's what I feel like, if I'm honest with myself, that just a little inkling of how horrible he was is sinking into my consciousness, and on some level it's a reflection of my own self-worth. Wrong, I know."
*****I think he put his shame in you and you hold it for him. You are embarrassed for him, as we all are for those we love sometimes. And it feels kind of like being tricked - that humiliation and shame for having been stupid enough to "let it happen." So yeah, our self-worth gets all tied up in it. And for me, all this anger I feel makes me afraid that I could be like him -- I could rage around and hurt the people I love. So I'm working really hard to hide my true self, because I believe that self to be bad. And on a whole different level, I'm angry that therapy is taking my "good dad" away from me. The more truth I figure out, the more it sinks in how horrible it was, that he was, the less I'm left with. So I'm losing my dad all over again. And it is almost impossible to explain to anyone how you can cling to that love while knowing the extent of his abuse.
I walk around in a confused daze a lot while a war rages inside my head.
Posted by OzLand on July 21, 2007, at 22:43:54
In reply to Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2007, at 21:25:05
I am presuming it is okay with you to stay with this pdoc? Am I wrong? Why do you have to be the one to teach him about bedside manner and how to be more caring and understanding. You say someday he may be a good pdoc. My experience is that mh professionals that are stiff and business like never change or change very little over the years. It is just who they are. I always consider it a complimnet when someone, even a judge, says to me that I am not like most psychologists they have encountered. All I am is just me, and I am friendly and caring and joke with them, etc. Of course I am professonal in court, etc. And when I did therapy, I did not act like a patient's friend, but I did not act indifferent or business like or unsympathetic either.
Posted by antigua3 on July 22, 2007, at 18:59:47
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 21, 2007, at 22:43:54
I'm getting this sense that you many not approve of my Pdoc. That's OK; I'm going to give it a few more tries and if it doesn't connect, I will find another.
thanks your your caring,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2007, at 17:18:36
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc, posted by antigua3 on July 22, 2007, at 18:59:47
I don't know that it's a matter of approval. Different styles work with different people. If his style works with you, then he has value to you.
Posted by OzLand on July 24, 2007, at 23:24:44
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc » antigua3, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2007, at 17:18:36
I agree with Dinah; if you want to stay with him and give it a try, go for it. I think I was saying I probably would not, but then who knows. Maybe I would have thought too that I need to give him a try and not just dump him over the side.
This is the end of the thread.
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