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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
some of your T's real thoughts about you. Or to know if he liked you as a person?
I don't think I'm taling about a boundary crossing, because I don't believe in any relationship other than therapist / patient. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is a boundary crossing, just to know how he feels.
I am so hung up on the idea of being with someone who makes me feel just some of what I feel about him. I feel so stuck. I feel sad when I'm not with him and I try to tell myself that what I have is great and I need to appreciate it. .... But that head knowledge just wont make it to my heart. :(
Today, for the first time I saw the next patient. She was 15 years younger than me, much lighter, of course, and she acted very "professional.
I wondered if she was gonna go in there and discuss what I just did. (The "spiritual" love relationship they have, how it is real... blah blah, blah...) She probably has her sh*t together much more than I. How pathetic, I was jealous I guess. It just felt weird.
I gotta keep from being sad and starting to cry so - gonna go now.
Posted by annierose on September 12, 2007, at 20:49:36
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
I do think it's hard to see your therapist's other clients. Don't beat yourself up on comparing yourself; I have done that too. I think it's human nature.
I have asked my t what she thinks about me. Sometimes she answers directly, sometimes she lists qualities she sees in me (like a grocery list - the one the cracked me up the most because it didn't say anything about me as a person or my character - "You are tall with lots of hair." Gee thanks, I didn't know that by looking in the mirror) or the worst, sometimes she answers by asking me another question. But I keep asking over and over.
We need to know that we matter. And my therapist has told me that I matter to her, and that she cares about me. Knowing that, I also know that I matter in her life as a client whom she has gotten to know a great deal about. She is invested in my emotional well being. And that makes me feel comfortable in her office (most of the time).
I'm not sure I have answered your question. I wanted you to know you can ask your t those questions, "Do you like me?" "What do you like about me?" "What about me makes me special?" "What frustrates you about me?" etc. etc. Keep asking.
Often when I am frustrated by the boundaries of therapy that make it such a safe place to share, my t will remind me, "If I shared everything with you, then I couldn't be your therapist anymore." And that is exactly right.
Posted by muffled on September 12, 2007, at 21:53:09
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
I too have worried bout what my T thot of me.
One time I asked her on the phone if I was a pain in the *ss!!! and wait...it gets worse.....she DIDN'T say NO!!!!!LOL!!!
She kinda wended around stuff, and so I asked again, and she still didn't say no!!!! and finally said I was 'challenging'!!!LOL! So I said what the heck does THAT mean, and she kinda backtracked around some, and FINALLY allowed as I wasn't a pain in the *ss......ROFL!!!
I love that my T is honest bout such things :-) Makes me feel safer.
I also must say things that infer to her, well, but anyways, some things I say, what I dunno, but then she tells me that she cares bout me. Usu at the end of a session I think. That I am important to her. Damn, that just kinda messes me up some. I guess I don't actually understand WTF it MEANS??? really.
Anyhow, I don't think its a bad thing to know that you are valued by someone who knows more about you than proly anyone. I think its proly a good thing somehow, if weird. So my T DOES say stuff like that, but like I say, it kinda weirds me some. I guess cuz i don't understand...
Go figger.
FWIW I have enjoyed your writings very much and am glad to have you as part of the babble community here :-)
M
Posted by JoniS on September 13, 2007, at 7:58:40
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
Posted by pianissimo on September 13, 2007, at 10:04:18
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
I think that asking to know their feelings can be a Pandora's Box-question. I wonder if many people have got a respone that fully satisfied them. Cause what are the odds that a T would give that "perfect" answer (whatever that is for each person). Then you'd have to be prepared to be disappointed, hurt, or scared either way. That's how it's been for me. One liked me too little, one loved me too much.
I wonder if it's better for us to not know anything?
I think it's weird seeing the next patient too. It doesn't happen often with me due to his scheduling, but lately it's happened 3 times. I always have to look at them sideways, trying to be subtle, to see if THEY are staring at me. I worry they're judging me. I wish I knew if they felt as awkward watching me come out, as I do seeing them waiting to go in. Sometimes I wish I had the opportunity to talk to one of them for a moment (away from the office of course). Other than that, I've worried before that my T could dislike other clients (cause I know what that's felt like). I have this need to know that everyone who's in therapy is being treated gently and kindly.
Hope you're not as sad today Joni.
Pianissimo
Posted by B2chica on September 13, 2007, at 10:48:23
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know... » JoniS, posted by pianissimo on September 13, 2007, at 10:04:18
i would only want to know how she feels about me as a patient...like if behind my back she says to another T or someone...."wow, i got this really messed up one this week"...or thinks negatively or poorly or ESPECIALLY stereotyped me.
THEN i would want to know. cuz i want help from someone who will respect me for me, and accept my 'issues' honestly and not look down on me.Luckily i feel that i can read people pretty darn well. and that i would hope i would have picked up on that. She seems pretty genuine. and from her comments, she seems to respect my wishes and my issues. so all's good....for now.
and i agree with pianissimo in that i think it can be a pandora's box. cuz i think they could love us not enough, or too much...even depending on the week we go in...(speaking from personal experience here). somedays i wanted my old T to care very deeply about me...i think it's more of a 'rescue/save me kinda feelings', and other days i Wanted him to hate me so that i could let out my anger at him and tell him bad stuff about childhood and NEVER have to see him again.
*********
just be careful Joni that your feelings with T don't hinder your getting better.
(((((cares))))))
b2c.
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2007, at 11:12:01
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
My therapist has this misapprehension that I am very respectful of the boundaries. Just because I don't call him that often after hours, or show up at his doorstep.
I pointed out to him the other day that I'm actually constantly pushing the boundaries. They're just the boundaries within the room. I push him to be real with me. I push him to have real feelings about me. I push him about how he's feeling, if I can detect it. I push him to care about me. I push him to acknowledge a real relationship. I push and pull and wheedle him to care.
I'm not sure if he understood, but he said something like "Those are ok boundaries to push."
I tend to think I push boundaries more than any client on earth.
Posted by Honore on September 13, 2007, at 13:56:01
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know... » JoniS, posted by Dinah on September 13, 2007, at 11:12:01
Joni, it might help. It's a good thing to talk about, at the very least.
As someone pointed out, though, it can be a pandora's box-- you can be always questioning the answer-- maybe it will really satisfy and touch you, or trouble you, but it can also feel like not enough, or not clear, or maybe not true, or-- just something that you can't quite rest with--- and, so many other things.
Some Ts don't like to answer this; other Ts do. But it's a very important question-- how your T feels, what you imagine your T feels, how you feel about your T, and about how he/she feels...etc. etc ..... and so forth... (it can go on forever).
If or when you feel ready, I wouldn't be afraid to ask. Whatever the boundaries are, or aren't, you'll learn a lot from it. I'm sorry, though, that you feel sad about it.
Honore
Posted by DAisym on September 14, 2007, at 0:36:54
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
My therapist usually says, "you already know. If I wasn't real with you, you'd know before I did. So search inside yourself - how do you think I feel about you?" And we talk about it. And talk about it.
It rattles me EVERYTIME I run into another client. It doesn't happen very often, though lately there is a new client who arrives consistently early for his appointment and always says "hi" to me on my way out. I have to cross the waiting room to get out the front door and he is sitting there. Actually (blush) I don't know for sure that he is waiting for my therapist (there are several who share the waiting room) but I suspect I'm right. This causes less jealousy for me than the females I have seen.
Worse -- in one of the offices where I see him, his wife has the office next door. Imagine me running into her after a session of telling him how much I need him -- bleck.
I think you have to get clear about what it is you want to know. I've talked to my therapist about what he thinks of me as a professional person - does he listen to me and think, "this person should not be working with kids or running an agency?" He says no. Once he told me I'm the hardest working person he has met in a long time. And this week he told me it was "remarkable" that I was still doing all I was doing as well as I was, given the work we are doing in therapy. I protested, "but I'm making mistakes and people aren't as generous as you are" and he responded, "that's because they have no f**king idea what is going on with you." OK. I think that was a protective urge on his part and I'll read it as caring, if that's OK.
Other times I've asked what he thinks about me as a therapy client. He admits I can be frustrating. I shut down and don't tell him what I'm thinking. And I research everything. On the other hand, I show up (on time), I *try* to be open with him and honest, even when it is embarrassing. And I think I let him know genuinely how much I appreciate him and how much I care about him. I ask him if he makes "that face" when he hears my voice on his answering machine. He swears he doesn't.
So there are different sides to this. Can you narrow down the question? It might help you have the discussion you are wanting.
All that said, I think I understand the terrible conflict that is part of loving your therapist and really wanting someone like them in your life. I'm not talking about sex or romance. I'm talking about an intimate other. And I think it is more than their "therapist-like" persona. If I'd met my therapist outside of therapy, I'm pretty sure I'd like him. We have a lot in common and we have the same (wicked, awful) sense of humor.
I hope you find a way to package some of this so that you can have a good weekend.
Posted by pegasus on September 14, 2007, at 12:16:19
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
I've asked this question to my T both directly and (mostly) indirectly, many times. Sometimes it is really helpful and sometimes it is not. I'm not sure whether that depends on where I am with it, or what the answer is. I like when I get direct answers ("you are strong, brave, smart, I really like you" etc.). I hate it when I get indirect answers ("I've answered this questions many times. I think you know how I feel" etc.). But sometimes the indirect answers are good in the long run, if you know what I mean.
Sometimes I get the answer to the question of whether my T likes me when I'm really trying to ask another question. That's super frustrating. But I know it's because I do ask this one a lot also, and it's hard for me to clearly ask questions that are subtly - but importantly - different.
I think it's important to really explore the question, as well as to carefully consider the answer. And I think it's important to try to find your own answer first, so that you can remember what it was after you have your T's answer. There may be more truth to what you feel inside you than to the way you interpret your T's actual words. Does that make sense?
peg
Posted by JoniS on September 16, 2007, at 19:57:17
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know... » JoniS, posted by pegasus on September 14, 2007, at 12:16:19
"...There may be more truth to what you feel inside you than to the way you interpret your T's actual words. Does that make sense?..."That makes sense.
Thanks!
Posted by JoniS on September 16, 2007, at 20:02:28
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know..., posted by B2chica on September 13, 2007, at 10:48:23
"...and i agree with pianissimo in that i think it can be a pandora's box. cuz i think they could love us not enough, or too much...even depending on the week we go in...(speaking from personal experience here). somedays i wanted my old T to care very deeply about me...i think it's more of a 'rescue/save me kinda feelings', and other days i Wanted him to hate me so that i could let out my anger at him and tell him bad stuff about childhood and NEVER have to see him again.----- I agree, and the rescue me, later hate me so I can ... so familiar -----
just be careful Joni that your feelings with T don't hinder your getting better.----- how do I know when they are hindering? ------
(((((cares))))))
b2c.
Thanks b2c
Posted by JoniS on September 16, 2007, at 20:07:50
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know... » JoniS, posted by pianissimo on September 13, 2007, at 10:04:18
" I think that asking to know their feelings can be a Pandora's Box-question. I wonder if many people have got a respone that fully satisfied them. Cause what are the odds that a T would give that "perfect" answer (whatever that is for each person). Then you'd have to be prepared to be disappointed, hurt, or scared either way. That's how it's been for me. One liked me too little, one loved me too much."
---- I think you're right, I don't think I realized til now that it could be a Pandora's box. And... disappointed, hurt or scared either way.... you are very perceptive. I guess there is not an answer that would be perfect for me. I dont know what I want.
Thanks so much!Joni
Posted by JoniS on September 16, 2007, at 20:26:48
In reply to Re: Do you think it would help to know... » JoniS, posted by DAisym on September 14, 2007, at 0:36:54
"...I think you have to get clear about what it is you want to know...."
I don't know what it is I want to know. Maybe I want to feel like under different circumstances, he could be interested in me. Because I, like you believe that I would like him if I knew him outside of therapy. I guess I don't feel "good enough" - so would I feel "good enough" for him or someone with the qualities I see in him, to have similar feelings about me? I guess my T would have a come back that basically said - is that how you want to measure yourself, by how someone else feels about you?
It's just that since he answers so often with a question, or avoids alltogether, it's hard not to wander off and believe he really doesn't like me. Only one time that I can ever remember sis he tell me how he feels. He said "I care deeply and profoundly..."
It's odd that I cant just hold on to that, and that keep wanting to hear it again, or hear more, or something...
I think he wants me to value myself totally independent of what he thinks of me, so therefore he wont give me the answer I want to hear. I don't know.
OH, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who freaks when they see other patients.
thanks!
Joni
Posted by RealMe on September 16, 2007, at 21:44:55
In reply to Do you think it would help to know..., posted by JoniS on September 12, 2007, at 16:12:19
This is exactly what I wanted to know from my T I have now especially after what I went through with the other one that said go do ECT. I have been seeing my T for 4.5 months now, and after I think it was 3 months, I asked him if he liked me because he would say stuff that sounded weird but that suggested he liked me--like saying he loved the faces I made and some other stuff I have posted about. SO, I finally asked him becasue he had answered me that he did not DISLIKE me. So, at first he wasn't going to answer me because he said he didn't know me well enough to know what was behind the question. I thought this is nuts, and I told him I don't want to work with someone if that person doesn't like me. I had to think, did I always like the people I worked wtih doing therapy? And the answer is yes. So what is the problem, I thought.
I started crying which I just absolutely hate, and then he said to get out of my head, and what did my heart tell me about whether or not he liked me. Boy talking about being put on the line, but he sounded so nice and caring, and so I said, my heart tells me that you do like me, and he responded with a yes. And that settled it for me. I am not looking for anything more than that he just like me as a person.
Now I think what if he had said nothing. I don't think I could have handled that, and I guess he knew that was so. I was really feeling on the edge at the time and was feeling very vulnerable about stuff I was revealing to him, and I just needed to know that he not only cared about what happened to me (as he had said) but that he liked me too.
So, I did it; I asked. Of course the motivation for asking is important.
RealMe
This is the end of the thread.
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