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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 17:47:26
It's been difficult as my insurance changed and the clinic my T. works for doesn't accept this new insurance, so I reduced visits from one a week to one every other week..... T. gave me a good rate- since I have to pay for it all on my own. The thing is though, I don't feel I'm making much progress anymore...... maybe twice a month isn't often enough......
anyway-- I had a session today and ....... we are often on the subject of my husband's alcohol addiction.(causes me much angst) T. said that in a situation such as this(addiction)- the person has to want to stop for themselves-- NOT to please someone else. Because I keep wondering -- why am I NOT worth his quitting drinking? I've asked him to please quit and even left and stayed in a hotel to show him I don't agree with it. He was upset and apologetic but..... then he's right back to the "bottle". If someone really cares and loves another-- wouldn't they do for the one they love? do I ask too much?..... I guess I'm not supposed to ask that he quit drinking for me??? T. said-- a person has to quit an addiction for themself.... huh?? isn't that just being as selfish as the addiction in the first place??? gee-- I'm so confused..... does self love/care trump partner love/care??
I thought T. was on my side.... I was finally starting to feel she was safe..... it doesn't feel like she's on my side here with this.....
am I seeing things correctly?? *sigh* feeling hopeless again.... :o(
flutterby-mandy
Posted by antigua3 on August 5, 2008, at 18:08:22
In reply to anyone understand?, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 17:47:26
I'm sure your husband wants to quit for you, but he can't. He's too addicted. No matter the love, the threats, etc., he still has to make the decision to get help. I say this in the kindest way, but it isn't about you to him, it's about the addiction.
So you have to decide what you want out of life and go for it. Have you tried Alanon? (Did I spell that right?). You need to take care of you now, and not focus as much on him, if that's at all possible. And you have to try not to take it personally. Do you feel like you're unlovable because he won't stop for you? If you do, stop beating yourself up. He's addicted.
I don't mean to sound harsh; I just hope you can find a way to concentrate on you, because sometimes we can't make others do what we want, no matter that it's the right thing.
I wish you the very best of luck. I know you're in a really difficult situation. And I think your T is looking out for you.
antigua
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 18:42:40
In reply to Re: anyone understand?, posted by antigua3 on August 5, 2008, at 18:08:22
>> I say this in the kindest way, but it isn't about you to him, it's about the addiction.<<
Oh I just remembered!! this is what my T. said too! thank you for reminding me.... maybe I better write this down.
> So you have to decide what you want out of life and go for it.<<Oh wow! were you in my session today? for homework I have to write down-- a whole page full-- of things I WOULD LIKE TO DO. Not what others can do to make my life happier but what I CAN DO.......
>> Have you tried Alanon? (Did I spell that right?).<<
heh, not sure of spelling either. well, I don't feel this is an option at this time, as my husband is trying to get his own compnay going and others knowing of this addiction could hurt his work-connections.>>You need to take care of you now, and not focus as much on him, if that's at all possible.<<...
I've only EVER taken care of others.... even my mom, when I was a child, when her times were tough I had to support her like as if I was HER mother. I take care and if they don't get better then I've failed.>>And you have to try not to take it personally. Do you feel like you're unlovable because he won't stop for you? If you do, stop beating yourself up. He's addicted.<< ...
YES! I do very much, wondering WHY am I NOT worth him stopping??.....
> I don't mean to sound harsh; I just hope you can find a way to concentrate on you, because sometimes we can't make others do what we want, no matter that it's the right thing.
> I wish you the very best of luck. I know you're in a really difficult situation.<<Thank you and I don't mind if it's harsh-- I like to be given things straight... don't care for sugar coating much.... well-- just when it's candy! LOL!......
>> And I think your T is looking out for you.<<
You really think so?? oh I hope you're right-- I'm so worried...... have huge trust issues......
flutterby- mandy
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2008, at 0:47:02
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » antigua3, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 18:42:40
Mandy yes he must want to stop on his own. Would he go to AA? Love Phillipa ps and if you go to alanon you don't give last names.
Posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 10:08:52
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » antigua3, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 18:42:40
yes, I definitely think your T is looking out for you. Trust is hard, yes, but he is giving every indication that he wants to truly help you. Again, you may not like what he's saying sometimes (that's natural for all of us), and at times you may not agree with him (and tell him why not), but yes, your interests come first with him.
You've given a perfect example of why this is so painful for you. It's a repeat pattern of what you went through w/your mother. Explore this w/your T (if he's psychodynamic) and it will definitely help with what you're going through now.
And make that list!!! Be selfish, for once in your life. Life is short and there are wonderful opportunities out there. You will be amazed at how much better you will feel if you take care of him less and work on yourself more.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 12:33:10
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » antigua3, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 18:42:40
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 6, 2008, at 13:44:07
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » fleeting flutterby, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2008, at 0:47:02
> Mandy yes he must want to stop on his own. Would he go to AA? Love Phillipa ps and if you go to alanon you don't give last names.<<
argh!! but I don't like this...... him stopping for himself...... coz then..... then..... I DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THE SITUATION! like, if I'm responsive and keep him happy he'll maybe stop drinking (oops- not yelling AT you Phillipa... just me being frustrated with this) I really really want to go to alanon- would like to talk to others going through similar.... but I'm just too scared..... small town..... I'm sure someone there would see me in some other place around town with my husband-- then it could jeapordize his career..... maybe I'm being paranoid.... I just am so fearful of making this worse than it already is. *sigh*......
thanks for replying sweetie :o)
ugh... feel so hopeless....... :o(
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2008, at 13:55:11
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » Phillipa, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 6, 2008, at 13:44:07
I'm not sure if someone in the grip of an addiction can think in such logical terms. The addiction changes the way the brain processes information. It has nothing to do with how much he loves you. And you can't be good enough or loving enough to change the way his brain is working. I'm not sure someone in the grip of an addiction can even *see* other people or other situations in the way others do.
When I'm mid obsession, I can look normal, I can respond in a normal fashion. But my brain is not behaving normally. It has nothing to do with anyone but me.
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 6, 2008, at 13:57:16
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » fleeting flutterby, posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 10:08:52
> yes, I definitely think your T is looking out for you. Trust is hard, yes, but he is giving every indication that he wants to truly help you.<
--- hmmmm, I think you are probably right, still it's bugging me. think I'm going to call T. and see if I can discuss this with an extra session on my "off" week.
> Again, you may not like what he's saying sometimes (that's natural for all of us), and at times you may not agree with him (and tell him why not), but yes, your interests come first with him.<<
--I DON'T like what I hear sometimes and then it feels threatening and confusing. How can someone be for you when they say things that may hurt you? well, I don't usually tell T. about disagreeing..... I think maybe I'm a major people pleaser and I don't want to hurt her feelings..... sheesh-- Is this me taking care of everyone again?? maybe that's what I'm doing....
>>You've given a perfect example of why this is so painful for you. It's a repeat pattern of what you went through w/your mother. Explore this w/your T (if he's psychodynamic) and it will definitely help with what you're going through now.<<
--ugh.... with all due respect, I so don't understand all those "types" of therapy..... I have no idea what kind of therapy I'm doing..... it's all so confusing to me.....
>
> And make that list!!! Be selfish, for once in your life. Life is short and there are wonderful opportunities out there. You will be amazed at how much better you will feel if you take care of him less and work on yourself more.<<YES! I'm going to do it! I already started with a couple things-- it's harder than I thought it would be though..... a whole page!-- yikes-- that's a lot of things....
thanks so much for your wonderful replies.... I'm so alone in my 3-D world..... I'm of the "schizo" type so I'm quite the loner(not a single friend).... but when stressed, being alone can be the worse thing. :o(
my soul is hurting so much.........flutterby-mandy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 6, 2008, at 14:09:15
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » fleeting flutterby, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2008, at 13:55:11
> I'm not sure if someone in the grip of an addiction can think in such logical terms. The addiction changes the way the brain processes information. It has nothing to do with how much he loves you. And you can't be good enough or loving enough to change the way his brain is working. I'm not sure someone in the grip of an addiction can even *see* other people or other situations in the way others do.
>
> When I'm mid obsession, I can look normal, I can respond in a normal fashion. But my brain is not behaving normally. It has nothing to do with anyone but me.<<---hmmmmm...... I think I see what you're saying. This is like "brain twisting" for me-- a different way to think..... I'm not responsible all the time? I don't have to make sure everyone is content? I can let go of some things?? yikes... that seems like I'm walking into the dark-- the unknown.... yikes....
thank you for your reply-- I've got some things to think about for sure.
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Hermitian on August 6, 2008, at 21:27:15
In reply to anyone understand?, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 17:47:26
Please check out Al-Anon:
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
It's an amazing support group for the families of alcoholics. They know exactly what you are going through.
Best Wishes,
-H
Posted by pegasus on August 7, 2008, at 9:31:10
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » Dinah, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 6, 2008, at 14:09:15
This is reminding me of a couple of books I've read, so I thought I'd mention them.
First, a great book about focusing on what you actually have control over, and recognizing that other are responsible for their own stuff is: http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Anger-Changing-Patterns-Relationships/dp/006074104X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218119134&sr=8-1. She's written some other bestselling books too, but I haven't read them. The Dance of Anger does talk about anger, but it's very generalizable to any way that we express wanting to change how other people behave.
The other book I'm thinking of here is http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Love-Story-Caroline-Knapp/dp/0385315546/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218119328&sr=1-1.
It's an incredible account of one woman's alcohol addiction. I think it's a fantastic education for anyone who has a need to understand what goes on in the mind of an alcoholic.I hope these are helpful to someone out in cyber space.
peg
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 7, 2008, at 15:30:55
In reply to Re: anyone understand?, posted by Hermitian on August 6, 2008, at 21:27:15
> Please check out Al-Anon:
>
> http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
>
> It's an amazing support group for the families of alcoholics. They know exactly what you are going through.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> -H<<<
thanks for the website. I appreciate it, sure would be nice to have others around that are going through similar..... maybe I will call and find out more..... though I'm fearful of anyone else finding out, I DO feel I need to do something..... don't think my soul can take much more.been around alcoholics since I was a child...... too bad I haven't ever learned how to help them.... (though I'd thought I'd gotten away from it all, as my husband didn't have this problem, he just started drinking heavy 4 years ago... he never drank like this before that)
flutterby- mandy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 7, 2008, at 15:33:10
In reply to Sorry, thought your T was a he! (nm) » fleeting flutterby, posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 12:33:10
I meant to tell you- antigua-- that's OK... about referring to my T. as a "he"-- no problem. :o)
flutterby- mandy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 7, 2008, at 15:40:03
In reply to Re: anyone understand?, posted by pegasus on August 7, 2008, at 9:31:10
> This is reminding me of a couple of books I've read, so I thought I'd mention them.
>
> First, a great book about focusing on what you actually have control over, and recognizing that other are responsible for their own stuff is: http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Anger-Changing-Patterns-Relationships/dp/006074104X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218119134&sr=8-1. She's written some other bestselling books too, but I haven't read them. The Dance of Anger does talk about anger, but it's very generalizable to any way that we express wanting to change how other people behave.
>
> The other book I'm thinking of here is http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Love-Story-Caroline-Knapp/dp/0385315546/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218119328&sr=1-1.
> It's an incredible account of one woman's alcohol addiction. I think it's a fantastic education for anyone who has a need to understand what goes on in the mind of an alcoholic.
>
> I hope these are helpful to someone out in cyber space.
>
> peg<<
Oh thank you! I really like to read.... wonder if these books will be in my towns tiny library..... I'm going to see. Those books sound so interesting. I hope I can find them.thanks again.
flutterby-mandy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on August 7, 2008, at 15:49:02
In reply to anyone understand?, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 5, 2008, at 17:47:26
Well, I called T. and she will see me on my "off" week, next week..... she was so kind and told me to call her again if I need to..... can't believe it!! she is SO nice! kind of feels like having my shoes on the wrong feet though-- feels strange to have someone concerned about "me" and be so nice.... kind of odd, like having ones left shoe the right foot and visa-versa. odd feeling......
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Justherself54 on August 7, 2008, at 19:26:21
In reply to Re: anyone understand?, posted by fleeting flutterby on August 7, 2008, at 15:49:02
My brother is an addict and I lived with an addict. I too could not figure out why he wouldn't quit drinking if he wanted to hold on to me and his baby (this was a long time ago). I left and raised my daughter...
Arguing with him was exhausing as he would turn everything around to seem like it my fault. He's been sober for 10 years now and we have a good relationship.
I came across this from an addiction forum...it's very harsh...but very true...it may help you to know what's going on in an addict's head..
What Addicts DoMy name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decision to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decision, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
I hope this doesn't cause too much distress...but this is straight from an addict.
I hope in therapy that you can find a way to put boundries in place that allow you to live your life to the fullest, without guilt or remorse. Many people have chosen to stay with the addict and have been able to utilize their coping skills and not allow the chaos that comes with addiction to rule their life.
For me I made the right decision to leave as my ex didn't stop drinking for another 10 years. It was a very hard decision as I still loved him deeply, but he put my daughter in jeopardy due to being drunk. At the time I couldn't believe he could do such a thing but when I read What Addicts Do..it makes sense.
My thoughts are with you..
Posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2008, at 19:35:32
In reply to Re: anyone understand?, posted by Justherself54 on August 7, 2008, at 19:26:21
Justherself sounds like my first husband did the same things as your describe been sober also for 20 someodd years. Now he's a good person and we were friends til he remarried and she stopped the realationship we had developed. So I have been in your shoes. I seem to attract addicts. Love Phillipa
Posted by Justherself54 on August 7, 2008, at 22:30:19
In reply to Re: anyone understand? » Justherself54, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2008, at 19:35:32
Fortunately, his new fiance is a lovely person and we get along very well...I'm happy for him...
This is the end of the thread.
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