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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:38:37
I am having a problem that I was hoping you all could help me with from the point of view of the substance user.
I have an SO. We lived together up until 3 weeks ago when he brought violence into a petty argument while drinking heavily. We are currently separated but attempting to work through our issues to remain a couple.
His issue is that he uses drugs (or, most recently, hard liquor) to escape life's problems and mundane times.
My issue is that I WANT to be able to trust him, but because he has lied to me while under the influence, I'm having a hard time being open minded while he works out his substance abuse and anger management issues. (I, too, am working on anger management issues because I am afraid of confrontation and tend to hold everything inside until I either explode in anger myself, or become completely withdrawn and depressed).
Last night, I had this overwhelming paranoia that he is dating and/or having sex with other women while we are apart. He says that he wants me to be his girlfriend; that he doesn't want any other girlfriends. But this stream of paranoid thoughts just popped in my head last night (is still with me) and I can't stand BEING this jealous, anxious, sleepless person.
How many of you have
1)lied to a loved one because you wanted to use
2) been caught
3) been forgiven
4) been trusted again in all things
and how?I hope I don't offend- I merely need a peek into the mind of the other party, so I came here hoping you all could shine some light on this for me.
Thanks for reading even if you don't respond,
sunny10
Posted by Declan on May 3, 2005, at 4:29:34
In reply to drug use and concurrent lying and deception, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:38:37
If he wants to use you won't be able to stop him and you might get on better if you don't object to him doing so. But that's no reason to let yourself be misused.
Declan
Posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2005, at 12:35:28
In reply to drug use and concurrent lying and deception, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:38:37
I've said this, I know, but it bears repeating.
Drinking, drugging and lying go hand in hand. I was 'just a drinker' and I 'didn't have a problem' for a long time.
So, to answer your questions:
1)lied to a loved one because you wanted to use
I said I didn't stop at the liquor store. I said I wasn't drinking when I had been. On the phone, I wasn't drunk - I just woke up. That headache in the morning was sunuses. I never lied *because I wanted to use* but I lied that I had been using.
2) been caught
nearly every time. He knows me too well.3) been forgiven
I was always forgiven, especially after he did a bit of research and finally believed it was truly a disease. He always blamed the disease, not me.
4) been trusted again in all things
Not the same as forgiving. The trust came back slowly as I showed that I could stay dry. And thanks to his participation in a family group he now says if I do slip it won't be the end of the world - but lying to him about it would be.
It isn't just the quitting. A person in recovery also has to work on the why of doing it, look inside himself to see the selfishness and deceit that is part of the package, realize how others really are hurt by his using - and move forward to become a better person. Those are the things rehab helps with.
Posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 14:35:05
In reply to Re: drug use and concurrent lying and deception » sunny10, posted by AuntieMel on May 3, 2005, at 12:35:28
if there was nothing to stop you; kids, money, et cetera; would you have simply left your husband because he had a hard time trusting you?
I guess that is what I fear most. That all of the loving and trying to be supportive and helpful won't mean a thing if he leaves because I can't trust him right now.
And he's making that difficult because he's not communicating openly with me- mostly 'cause he's ashamed of what a mess he made of our relationship. He wants to "be strong", to "be a man"...
Did you ever feel that way? Like working on the relationship and regaining your husband's trust just wasn't worth it?
I know- I'm a mess...
I just told Lar that I would write him a letter to let him know how I feel and request that he answer a few questions for me.
Maybe then I could feel more in control of my own runaway emotions...
Posted by Caper77 on May 3, 2005, at 23:53:24
In reply to drug use and concurrent lying and deception, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:38:37
My drug of choice is/was alcohol and it turned me into a selfish, lying, cheating, manipulative woman.
1) I lied to get out of the house to get it, lied to use it, lied about whether I was using, lied about the time I had sober. I lied to my family, friends, boyfriend, psychiatrist, therapist and anyone else you could possibly think of including my grandmother and my child.
2) I've been caught by most of the above too, including my child.
Him: "What are you drinking Mom?"
Me (just out of another detox): "Water, honey."
Him: (looking disgusted and confused and hurt): "Sure."
Me: "Go back to sleep."It was vodka of course.
3) I've been forgiven many times.
"We just want you better!"
"We want the old you back."
"What can we do to help?"4) I seriously doubt I will be trusted again any time soon, nor should I be.
I'm only a few weeks sober and I do not deserve anyone's trust just yet. I am just now owning up to all the bad things I've done and just now beginning to think about cleaning up the mess I've made.
I am truly trying now though. For about a year and a half I'd have to admit that drinking was always the first thing on my mind. Now it's my son again, as it should be. I'm very ashamed of myself, but I'm also very lucky that no one has turned their backs on me as I probably deserved. For the first time in a long time I'm not thinking "sobriety sucks, where's the booze?" It feels good. (But you still cannot believe me, not yet!)
Bottom line:
If he's using, he's lying about it and if you catch him lying that means he's using. Doesn't mean he doesn't love you, but be very careful. Make him earn your trust back with _time_ not words and professed good intentions. Look after yourself because that's surely what he's doing.Best to you,
Caper
> How many of you have
> 1)lied to a loved one because you wanted to use> 2) been caught
> 3) been forgiven
> 4) been trusted again in all things
> and how?
Posted by sunny10 on May 4, 2005, at 8:37:27
In reply to Re: drug use and concurrent lying and deception, posted by Caper77 on May 3, 2005, at 23:53:24
I truly appreciate your response. With only a few weeks sober under your belt, it must have been difficult to answer those questions honestly just to help out someone you don't even know.
It seems obvious to me that you are a good person. Keep remembering that for yourself and act accordingly- the rest will start remembering what a good person you are, too.
Thank you, thank you, thank you; I'll be cautious and careful.
warmest regards,
sunny10
Posted by AuntieMel on May 5, 2005, at 17:49:11
In reply to Re: AuntieMel, posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 14:35:05
Ah, but there *is* nothing to stop me. The kids are out of the house. Since he started his own business I'm the major breadwinner - we did a refi on the house a year or so ago and it was *my* income that qualified us. And I'm the one with health insurance so actually he needs me (financially) more than I need him.
I never felt trust wasn't worth working for. Besides loving hubby I also respect his opinion more than anyone else and I would hate to lose that forever.
The 12 steps are broken into 4 sections "clean up" "grow up" "make up" and "keep up." Even for those who are not in AA many of these steps still need to be accomplished for recovery to work. Those that stop with "clean up" aren't being honest with themselves and will likely fail.
For most people the trust starts to come back somewhere in the "grow up" phase and contines to grow through the the "make up" stage.
That's where the honesty part of the program kicks in. The person quitting *must* admit the destruction and damaged they caused and try to make it right. Communication is part of making it right. There is no room for pride in recovery.
Many in recovery get frustrated when their SOs don't just automatically start trusting them again. In our groups we are having to often tell them that losing that trust didn't happen overnight and it won't come back overnight either.
And you are certinly welcome to print this out and give it to him if you like.
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:57
In reply to Re: AuntieMel » sunny10, posted by AuntieMel on May 5, 2005, at 17:49:11
I think it WILL take hearing that from a third party for him to truly understand what TRUST and intimacy ARE !!
He IS angry that I don't immeditaely trust him again just because he admitted he was wrong and promised not to do it again. It is a form of denial that makes it easy for him to forget the past promises that he made and broke, but I was forced to give up my OWN denial when my air flow was cut off by his hands.
This is exactly why I won't wait forever for him to go into therapy. He says that he can't even think by himself while living at his mom's temporarily. He is anticipating the move out of his mom's house by June 1. I expect him to be in therapy by June 15th. He has it all built up in his mind as something difficult to establish- mainly because I think he is afraid of having to go in there and own up to not being the perfect person he would prefer to think he is.
I went to my first anger management therapy session yesterday. I picked an office that is convenient to SO's work; they will provide each of us with individual counselling and are prepared to bring us together for couples counselling (with conflict resolution, of course) when they feel we are both ready to do sessions together. I need to learn to be assertive without becoming offensive instead of holding it all in until I fall headlong into depression or blow up and bring up everything that has made me angry in the last two years!!! Neither of those is conducive to healthy conflict resolution- and my stomach is beginning to feel like I'm getting ulcers! I've started my part- he has to join me if he wants a future with me.
I will keep you informed- thanks for caring and for being there when I have these questions.
I am truly out of my league with this stuff, but you're making it a little more understandable for me, so thanks!!!
-sunny10
Posted by AuntieMel on May 6, 2005, at 12:03:23
In reply to Re: I love you, AuntieMel, posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:57
And here's another AA pithy thought - in my words.
The program is simple. It requires only that you *do* the recommended things, not that you think about them. An addict's thinking is faulty anyway - remember it's *your* best thinking that got you here.
Think he'd like to email an uninvolved third party? I'm available.
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 14:12:40
In reply to Re: thank you sunny, posted by AuntieMel on May 6, 2005, at 12:03:23
I think that right now I am too nervous to suggest much to him besides therapy...part of him thinks that he is agreeing to it just to make me happy, I think. He is still partly in denial, I think.
It's the fear thing for me- the knowledge that he needs to talk to a third party so it can "be made real" in his eyes. As of right now, we live in separate households BECAUSE he strangled me, so I am still a bit afraid of "saying the wrong thing" until he gets some anger management therapy under his belt...and I'm sure the talk will lead to the substances.
Until he talks with a third party, his "problems" are "partly overreaction" on my part in his eyes, so this kind of suggestion might set him off. I just want to wait on this suggestion for a little while.
It's the opposite of denial for ME- it's self-preservation at the moment.
I hope that your offer will stand in a month or so, though- I would love to suggest it to him when I am a little less afraid...and it has become a little more "real" to him...not just a product of his girlfriends "euphoriaphobia"- to use someone else's term...
but God Bless you! I will definitely keep you in mind when he is ready to accept your gracious offer to help.
This is the end of the thread.
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