Posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2006, at 12:01:42
In reply to trauma and cycles in the present, posted by alexandra_k on December 31, 2005, at 18:57:04
> i have been thinking...
Were it ever otherwise, I should be looking for a pulse and respiration.
> about trauma.
> about the notion that if someone has experienced trauma... then they relive that over and over and over.Notion? I'd place it closer to fact, myself.
> they were victimised and they go on to elicit that same victimisation from new people in their life...I think there may be a tendency to do something like that, ya. But far from consciously, certainly.
> and i think maybe... i do that a little...
>
> but sometimes... they were victimised and they go on to persecute in the way they were persecuted...
>
> and i think maybe... i do that a lot...
> i think...
> i do that :-(
> and i hurt the people i care about the most.
> :-(
> because i do get scared.
> and it is kind of self defence...
> only...
> people probably need to protect themself from me really :-(There is enough vagueness in your language, that I'm going to offer up my most concise observations. Here, at babble, sometimes I see you persist in something that another has told you elicits discomfort. And I don't attribute that to malicious intent. More like doggedness. And, I think most people do that. I do it.
Whatever it is that you think others need protection from, with respect to you, is not obvious, or even visible, to me.
Unless, it is not acting.
But nobody owes a duty of acting, unless they are in a position of guardianship or care (e.g. parental, or caring for the ill). Even in law, the duty of acting is limited to those trained to act.
And I think you judge yourself most harshly in those moments, when you are unable to act.
If someone is struggling in the surf, I reasonably expect a lifeguard to enter the water, and render assistance. But no one has any right to expect me to, because I can't swim well. I have a loud voice, but I may be paralyzed with fear. Etc.> which pains me so much :-(
> and comes back to the truth in the 'i'm not fit for human company' idea...May I express my contrary opinion, strongly held?
> how are you supposed to stop with that???
By acting differently. By letting others determine that, rather than you.
> i have heard...
>
> abbreaction.
> thats what that is supposed to be about.
> if you can experience the initial trauma...
> and work through that...
> then it will stop the cycle being played out over and over indefinitely.Stop it? Maybe. Diminish it? Very likely.
That's what EMDR is all about. Catharsis. EMDR is like the Heimlich maneuver for the emotions.
> does that really work do people think?
Yes.
> what i've read about it...
>
> hard to say...You're a skeptic. Perhaps that rare animal, one worse than me. I hope you take that into account.
> do things have to get worse in order to get better?
No. But if they do, it might be a clue that something needs remedying.
Oh, you mean in the catharsis? I always think of lancing a boil. In the greater scheme of time, it only hurts worse for a flash. And you soon knock yourself upside the head for having waited as long as you did.
> what if...
>
> you relive it...
>
> and can't find your way back out?It is thought to happen. But think about time. The great continuum. This sort of work does not have a time component, in the sense of how we normally think of time. It is timeless. So, measured by clocks and calendars, some rare individuals' journeys back do require lengthier sojourns from this shared reality. As for never returning to it? I wouldn't think that likely. And, great pains are taken to prepare for the return journey. I think of my own EMDR when I say that. A return path was preconstructed, and tested.
> is that how...
>
> you learn about the distinction between the present and the past?
>
> cause they get all messed up and tangled together for me... and i can't tell where i am and what i'm responding / reacting to.Ah, the disentanglement. I think of that as a related but separate skill. Do you recall my interjection into your discussion with Dinah, the one about parcels? That's what I was talking about. The disentanglement, and a method that has worked for me. I'm very much better at it, than I was. I was in my 30's when I first accomplished it, at all. It's something you can learn to do.
> or...
>
> does it just make people worse...
>
> (like anna o...)
>
> etc.I don't know anna o, but I think two things, in supposing what you mean (a sad case).... One, nothing is guaranteed, except that remaining where I am, without effort to change, is unacceptable. It isn't going to stop sucking, on its own. Two, anna might have been helped by finding appropriate means of succorance. There is no lost cause.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:593810
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051229/msgs/593938.html