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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 10:33:01
She talked to my husband about the way he fusses at my son, and how much of a negative impact he has on him, and how my son not only feels like he'll never measure up, but also judges everyone else as harshly as he judges himself.
(She says she has to explain how most children behave and think to my son. That he not only doesn't realize it, but once she explains he doesn't understand how it's possible.)
But that's not going to work. Already it's back to same old, same old, and it's only been days.
Shouldn't she treat my husband's behavior the way she treats the school bully's behavior? As something that is unfortunate and we wish it wouldn't happen, but it's a given in this world like the son rising and setting. And my son needs to learn how to react in the face of my husband's behavior. He's young. She's got a shot with him. My husband will never change.
And he's a wonderful dad in so very many ways. If only my son can see all those wonderful ways, and discount the one or two bad ways.
Posted by AuntieMel on April 25, 2005, at 15:40:25
In reply to I think the therapist is making a mistake, posted by Dinah on April 24, 2005, at 10:33:01
I forget how much your husband fusses - and at what situations.
If he really does *always* fuss at him and make him feel inadequate then I would say it is a real problem. Try listening to it as if you were 9 and ask yourself if it would be something you can learn to deal with.
The school bully is different. He doesn't have to *live* with the bully - and doesn't want to look up to him.
Husbands can change - if they see the need for change. Have you tried taping him and playing it back?
Meanwhile maybe your husband can do more of the things they do wonderfully together to balance it out.
I just know what it felt like to me when it happened. And one of the biggest things I'm working on in therapy is having the ability to stand up for myself.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 8:25:05
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on April 25, 2005, at 15:40:25
I know. And I don't like it. I call it the startle discipline technique. It's not quite a yell, but it's an overreaction to the situation done pretty much on purpose by his own admission to encourage compliance. It inevitably puts my son in tears. And it's a rather belittling technique, complete with comments on inability to pay attention, etc. that I think are uncalled for. He thinks what I do can't be considered discipline because I talk to the boy. But it works! If I tell him he can play, but his homework needs to be done by four thirty, and I come out at five, his homework is done. And he's only eight.
But this is not the first psychologist/parenting expert who has told my husband that his style is harmful to our intrapunitive little boy. It usually makes a difference for a little while then he goes back to being him.
He did surprise me by saying last night that he had decided to change because of what she said (although he did the startle discipline technique over the weekend, so I'm not optimistic).
However the way he said it wasn't all that encouraging. He said "I've decided to be a lazy parent like that therapist said. I'll try letting *you* discipline for a while and we'll see what happens *then*."
I'm not sure that bodes well for the future.
Posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 12:18:47
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 8:25:05
Well, as someone who finds it difficult to change behaviors I can sympathise with your husband.
On the other hand, my father justified the physical/mental abuse he dished out by saying that was the way he was raised. Sometimes behaviors do need changing, hard as it might be.
You say he is better for a little while and slips back into his old patterns. So it seems clear that he *wants* to change and he sees value in changing, but he's just having a hard time maintaining it. So the question is *how* to do it, not *whether* to do it.
My hubby's ideas of discipline weren't all that bad, but he did some things that even he admitted were wrong, including some belittling. One compromise we settled on (unconsciously) was that he quit saying those things to the kids, but instead, when we're along, vents it all out - including the belittling. It took me a while to be able to listen to it without jumping to the kids' defense but now I just tune it out.
And maybe you can come up with some kind of signal you can both agree on that says 'you're starting to get carried away.'
And, of course, praise him profusely when he gets it right. Husbands are like puppies, you know.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:13:01
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on April 26, 2005, at 12:18:47
> And, of course, praise him profusely when he gets it right. Husbands are like puppies, you know.lol. I know. And I'm generally good at training, but he's a stubborn one.
Posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:47:12
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2005, at 18:13:01
Dinah,
I really hate that "fine, you do it" solution husband's seem to use. I wouldn't agree to this, unless you really really need him to back off.
And kids do see both the good and bad in their parents. Make no doubt that your son already has his own list on both sides. The one thing you can do is sometimes say "daddy makes me mad sometimes when he does (such and so); I really wish he would (X). This lets your son know you see it and yet it doesn't disrespect your husband.
Parenting is hard, isn't it?
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 9:10:12
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake » Dinah, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:47:12
It sure is. :(
That's the approach I take now, and instead she wants me to remain stone faced in front of my son and talk to my husband privately.
I think that'll be as hard for me as it will be for my husband to change. It's been indoctrinated into me since youth that not saying something when you see something unfair is virtually equivilant to doing it.
Posted by AuntieMel on April 29, 2005, at 14:25:30
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is making a mistake » daisym, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 9:10:12
Unless by saying something like you do now causes huge, huge fights I wouldn't go stonefaced.
To me it *is* the same as doing it yourself. And especially if you son is used to it - suddenly going quiet could make him feel like - well, like you've turned on him.
I don't know if it's needed, but if hubby thinks you are undermining respect for him you could maybe tone it down a notch.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 16:35:20
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is wrong again » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on April 29, 2005, at 14:25:30
No fights, and very toned down. Sometimes just a hand on his shoulder or catching his hand. Sometimes a quiet remark that I wish Dad had chosen to say that differently. A while after, I might say that when people say things like that to me, I feel bad afterwards. Does he feel bad afterwards? And the things that my son answers... I wish my husband took them to heart. They aren't angry lashing out things. They're very sad things. His offhand remarks about his dad are the same.
I also point out all the legitimate ways my husband is wonderful with my son. How much fun he is to play with.
Anything more than that I say to my husband privately.
I don't want to recreate the triangulation that was in my family. But I also don't want my son to think that he deserves to be treated disrespectfully or that it's ok. Which sort of sticks me in an awkward situation. But I don't know if I can solve it by doing what the therapist suggests.
Any more than my husband can do what the therapist suggests. (Reiterating that this is about relatively minor things, being disrespectful to my son, disciplining by startling with anger. Nothing remotely abusive.)
:(
Posted by AuntieMel on May 2, 2005, at 14:56:28
In reply to Re: I think the therapist is wrong again » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on April 29, 2005, at 16:35:20
I know what you mean. Sometimes (ok, more than sometimes) I feel like the one in the middle. "I know dad said x, but he was angry and what he really meant was xy"
And I know you aren't talking about full fledged abuse. I don't think you would stay there if it was really abusive.
Maybe if you silently tape some of the things your son says for him? It sounds like he wouldn't purposely hurt his son - maybe it just hasn't soaked in that he is.
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