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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
He tells me I'm holding myself away from him this week and yet I feel like I can't stand being away from him. Yesterday I left in tears after telling him he had no idea how hard it was for me again between sessions. I felt so alone. He said "I'm here - but you won't let me in." But I don't know why not.
Today I spent the first 1/2 hour talking about future career goals. And then I looked at him and said, "Why do you think I'm having such a hard time missing you again?" Of course he didn't answer me, but we talked about how frustrated I was with being back in this needy place. I said I was tired of being in parts and pieces. That I needed to stop regressing and move forward -- make decisions about what is next. He said those were adult goals. And good ones. But it seemed that I'm trying to "beat into submission" the part of me that is still hurting and still has stories to tell. He thinks the need for him is escalating as the younger part gets more and more panicked about being ignored, being shut down and not ever being allowed "out" again. He said Little Daisy isn't going quietly. And he thinks that is a good thing. I tried to explain the war going on in my head about what was important -- it made the room spin and I floated away completely. I told him I wanted to fight with him about letting her out or keeping her quiet. So he needed to pick a side. He said we need to make room for both parts of me. How do you fight with that?!
What I need to say is that I'm really worried that now that someone is listening to me about the abuse, I'll never be able to quiet down these younger parts. I don't want to be "addicted" to the intensity that comes with telling and the good feeling of (finally) being heard, believed and soothed. I need to let go of that and find contentment in my life now. But truthfully, as hard as I try to not be in separate parts, I still am. And this younger part is terrified that I will force her into silence again and rip her away from the first security she has ever really felt. The books tell me to comfort her -- and to move on. They just don't tell me how to do that. Or how long is too long?
My therapist ended our session today telling me that it takes a lot of time to heal. And he said to heal means to make whole. I told him I just didn't think I could do it. It is too hard and too painful to keep going. He said, "I know. But what is your alternative?" I had no answer to that -- just two little tears that escaped down my face.
My answer tonight is to put Little Daisy up for adoption. Someone else come and take care of her for a while.
Posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 5:18:15
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Dearest little (((Daisy))): I will come and take care of you. I will give you some milk and cookies (lemonade), hot chocolate? I will give you a safe place to be, and lots of attention and love, let you take naps..read you stories, tuck you in at night..and just....be
I think that is what we all want, eh? Someone to love, understand, empathize and CELEBRATE.....us...because no one ever did?
I understand about the abuse; lived it as a child and then in 31 years of marriage. Except for 3 years in the army I have lived like that.
I believe that until we can get it "all' out----all of the pain, we can never even begin to heal. How can we do this?
painful process...someone said: "If you are going through hell......keep going."
It's the only way to do it, and of course, the scariest thing you can ever do.
It's like the abuse is like a cancer inside, and until we can get the operation (talking about all of it), it will affect our whole lives, and destroy us.
How do we do it? Talking, writing, etc. That is the only way I know how.
Hugs and Love, Ally
Posted by gardenergirl on December 8, 2005, at 5:52:26
In reply to Re: Horrible session » daisym, posted by allisonross on December 8, 2005, at 5:18:15
Daisy,
I can't pretend I know what's its like to be you or to have your experiences. You write about them so eloquently, though, I feel as if I have some idea. Unfortanately, I don't have any easy answers for what you are struggling with.I think the important thing is you still ARE struggling, and you still ARE talking about things. It may not seem like it to you, because you and your T have developed a baseline level of emotional intimacy through your hard work. But you really have accomplished a lot just by doing that---by developing the need and the trust.
I can tell you, I'm not sure that any of my clients have ever been able to open up to me the way it sounds like you do with your T. I know some of that is a function of time. But you really deserve a ton of credit for risking being open and vulnerable in the first place, and for continuing that process even though it's so hard and it's so painful.
Similar to what allison said, but in the immortal words of a Disney character, "Just keep swimming."
And Daisy, dear. You are a good person. You are doing a good thing for yourself, that's hard and scary. I applaud you, respect you, approve of you, and love you.
And I'd love to babysit little Daisy for awhile. She can pack a bag, and I can take her to the zoo, make snow angels, have hot cocoa with marshmallows, and run around with the dog. I'll even get some Cream of Wheat for breakfast. She can help me make the goodies I make for Christmas, and maybe do some shopping if she's not tired. I have a great comforter and lovely places in my home to snuggle in for a nap. She's welcome anytime.
((((Daisy))))
gg
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 6:37:10
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
I’m sorry it’s so hard.
> I said I was tired of being in parts and pieces. That I needed to stop regressing and move forward -- make decisions about what is next.
It really does take time to heal, and healing isn’t necessarily linear. Sometimes we need to return to things. I don’t think it’s going backwards or regeressing; I think it’s revisiting old things from a new perspective. That’s actually progress. If you didn’t have new perspectives, you would have no framework in which to deal with it all.
> What I need to say is that I'm really worried that now that someone is listening to me about the abuse, I'll never be able to quiet down these younger parts.
Maybe once they’ve been fully heard they’ll be a bit quieter of their own accord. Maybe if they believe they will be listened to when they need to be listened to, they’ll be quiet in between. I don’t think they’ll be obstreperous forever, but at the moment they need a little attention. It’s natural.
> I don't want to be "addicted" to the intensity that comes with telling and the good feeling of (finally) being heard, believed and soothed.
(((((Daisy))))) It’s not an addiction. You *need* to be soothed and cared for. It’s not bad or foolish or childish or silly. Everybody needs it. At any age. Yes, it feels intense when you’re hurting. But that’s because you need it so much. It helps a little with the hurt. And when things don’t hurt quite so much any longer, you won’t need the soothing so much. It might be hard to believe that, but it’s true. Eventually, when it hurts less, the intensity will be less.
> I need to let go of that and find contentment in my life now.
I suspect your therapist might say that you need to heal a bit more before you can find the same kind of contentment outside of therapy.
> But truthfully, as hard as I try to not be in separate parts, I still am. And this younger part is terrified that I will force her into silence again and rip her away from the first security she has ever really felt. The books tell me to comfort her -- and to move on. They just don't tell me how to do that. Or how long is too long?
There is no ‘too long’. Whenever she needs to be comforted, comfort her. Moving on comes naturally out of feeling comforted. I think it’s like the end of a hug with a close friend. Hugs are nice but they don’t last forever. Eventually we leave the embrace and do other things. But there can be more hugs later if we need them. Or if we just want them.
> My therapist ended our session today telling me that it takes a lot of time to heal. And he said to heal means to make whole. I told him I just didn't think I could do it. It is too hard and too painful to keep going. He said, "I know. But what is your alternative?" I had no answer to that -- just two little tears that escaped down my face.
It *is* hard. It is excruciatingly painful. But if you allow yourself a little comfort, the pain becomes a little more bearable.
> My answer tonight is to put Little Daisy up for adoption. Someone else come and take care of her for a while.I’ve love to babysit little Daisy too. I think my kids would adore her. There’s a park a few minutes’ drive away with swings and pretty flowers and a pond with birds. It’s a great place to go for a walk and a play. There’s also a café in the middle of the park where we can get hot chocolate with marshmallows. Do you think she’d like to come with us?
Tamar
Posted by annierose on December 8, 2005, at 7:13:35
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
I'm sorry it's hard Daisy.
We're here to listen and help.
>>I don't want to be "addicted" to the intensity that comes with telling and the good feeling of (finally) being heard, believed and soothed. I need to let go of that and find contentment in my life now. <<<
I totally understand that feeling.
As all the above posters mentioned, just keep on keeping on. You are doing great work with a great therapist.
And of course, little kids are exhausting after awhile. I would love to have her over. She'll get to experience winter (snow storm on its way). Maybe we can meet up w/GG and go sledding. My kids love to ski, they could help her learn and hot chocolate is a must (yes, w/marshmellows)!
Posted by fallsfall on December 8, 2005, at 8:26:09
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Little Daisy is welcome so many places (you know that I would love to spend time with her!!).
But, not forever. She is a precious part of you. You wouldn't be you if you adopted her out. Please don't do that to her or to you.
She needs you. We could take her for a little while, but you are who she needs. No one can take your place for her.
Maybe Big Daisy is starting to feel like SHE needs some caretaking. It really is pretty huge for you to ask us to help with little daisy. Big Daisy deserves some help, too. I'll hold the Big part of you, as well as comfort the little part. It's OK to ask for some help.
But please don't exile any part of you. I don't want you any different than you are (except you can be a little happier being just who you are!). I need all of those parts of you.
(((((...Daisy & daisy)))))...
Love,
Falls.
Posted by B2chica on December 8, 2005, at 9:28:57
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
sweet daisy, i'm not sure what i can say to help you. just know that i am here for you. i'd listen to you whatever you needed to say, i'd believe you no matter what, i'd hold you tight in my arms to make sure you understand it's unconditional, and i'd feed you making sure your tummy was full and we'd go out and play in the snow.
here i am ((((((daisy & daisy)))))))
b2c.
Posted by happyflower on December 8, 2005, at 9:59:04
In reply to Re: Horrible session » daisym, posted by B2chica on December 8, 2005, at 9:28:57
(((((daisy))))) I don't have much to add because everyone said what I would have, but my heart aches hearing your story. I hope you feel better soon. When is your next session?
Posted by Anneke on December 8, 2005, at 10:41:49
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Daisy,
I'm new here but your post resonated with me so much that I had to respond. I sympathize with the fear that now that you've finally let someone in and that person has responded so wonderfully that you'll never be able to quiet those little ones again. I go around and around about this with my own therapist....I'm too needy, I've told the stories enough, I need to move on. But it's just not that easy...is it? If only we could make the decision to move on and that would be that.
And, I too am looking to comfort and soothe that little girl by myself. I could have written the sentence "The books tell me to comfort her -- and to move on. They just don't tell me how to do that." myself. I keep thinking that my copy of "Courage to Heal" must be missing the part where it gives the step by step instructions for moving on! My therapist tells me that I've done the first part....letting the little part out and letting her trust and become attached to her (my therapist). Now I have to somehow learn to help my adult part listen to her and soothe her, but (and this is where I always get in trouble) it doesn't have to be either/or....I don't have to either do it all myself or be completely dependent upon my therapist. For me, every time I feel like I'm making progress, the little part freaks out and feels like I'm losing my therapist and then I find myself sobbing hysterically when I have to leave my therapist's office and calling her or e-mailing her between sessions. All of which SHE is fine with...it's me that beats myself up over being too needy, too much, too dramatic.
I wish I had good answers for you....but I think it's what everyone else has said. Keep on keeping on, be gentle with yourself, get angry when you need to and trust that it will get better. And allow yourself to feel good about how far you've come.
I'm sorry it's so hard for you right now....and it IS hard.
Anneke
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2005, at 12:50:55
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Aw Daisy, at least you can talk. thats a good thing.
And your kid is just a kid. Maybe its best you keep her.
You guys maybe don't have to talk, but just be quiet and companionable. Don't rise to the bait when she trys to get you going.
I dunno. Thats how it is with mine. Cept she's not talking to me. :( I am afraid I really blown it with her, usus. she gets over stuff so fast. :( Now she's just deeply sad, and its my fault :(
Hope you'll be happier soon.
Both/all of you,
Muffled,muffly, and who knows who else......
Posted by Shortelise on December 8, 2005, at 13:09:33
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Daisy, I just read the responses you got from everyone, and I have tears in my eyes from the loving things people have said. There is nothing I can add, nothing except I care, too.
ShortE
Posted by fairywings on December 8, 2005, at 13:26:25
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
(((daisy)))
I'm sorry you're having such a struggle. Is there a adult part of you inside who could care for, love, and soothe the younger part who wants so desperately to be loved, and is clammoring for attention? I found an adult male part of me who is so wonderfully nurturing, and he's been really good with those younger parts of me that I just can't deal with. He's also a good companion for me.I completely understand the neediness for your T. After all you didn't get nearly what you needed as a child, so now you want all of that attention for yourself, and then add to it that you have to be so strong at work and at home. You need and deserve attention. It would be so much more simple if our parents would just love us the first time around, so we didn't have to undo all the damage.
I hope you'll let yourself have what you need - the fun and the light heartedness will come at some point in time.
fw
Posted by Frida on December 8, 2005, at 13:42:36
In reply to Re: Horrible session » daisym, posted by fairywings on December 8, 2005, at 13:26:25
Dear Daisy,
I'm crying after reading your post and the others' responses.
It touches my heart so deeply.It truly is hard :-( But you are talking and little daisy too and you have such a close, true, deep relationship with your T...
I have no words- I so understand what you are sharing, I could have written parts of it myself- the little girl in me is so terrified of getting lost inside forever and not ever ever finding that relief and that "something" missing from back then and from all the times she cried alone and held the pain inside-
I think it does take a long long time- think of how many times we kept it all inside alone-and tried to survive and get through it and get through life with all that going on - and hiding and not telling and craving for comfort and for someone to rescue us that never came :-(
I feel I need to somehow go back to it all, every little moment, everything with my T and have her there with me, truly there, so I can change that horrible pain that was before.
That takes time- I think you're doing wonderful job with your T..it takes time and lots of steps backwards too and baby steps forward.I tell myself that as long as i am aware that sometimes I want that little girl disappear and make her stop telling- she won't die and she won't be lost inside for ever. I am aware that a part of me doesn't want to let her talk and be out- but she does need to-
Your little Daisy needs comfort and love- and it takes time- and it is ok.
I am thinking of you,
sending you comfortFrida
> (((daisy)))
> I'm sorry you're having such a struggle. Is there a adult part of you inside who could care for, love, and soothe the younger part who wants so desperately to be loved, and is clammoring for attention? I found an adult male part of me who is so wonderfully nurturing, and he's been really good with those younger parts of me that I just can't deal with. He's also a good companion for me.
>
> I completely understand the neediness for your T. After all you didn't get nearly what you needed as a child, so now you want all of that attention for yourself, and then add to it that you have to be so strong at work and at home. You need and deserve attention. It would be so much more simple if our parents would just love us the first time around, so we didn't have to undo all the damage.
>
> I hope you'll let yourself have what you need - the fun and the light heartedness will come at some point in time.
> fw
Posted by LittleGirlLost on December 8, 2005, at 14:21:17
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
(((((Daisy)))) My head is not clear enough to give you the response I'd like to, but I hear your pain and I am thinking of you.
lgl
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 17:30:02
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Daisy, I may be (and likely am) way off base here, because I'm talking from my own perspective and my own experiences.
But...
I found it soooo much easier for my adult rational self to accept and appreciate my (younger seeming) emotional self. To realize that that part of me has things to contribute. And that I wasn't a fully rounded person in the grown up rational mode.
And it may have helped even more when my emotional side found out that there were many ways of getting attention and nurturing. That what used to come my way only from acting out and being destructive could come my way just because I needed it or wanted it.
Do you ever give little Daisy alternative ways of achieving that intensity and intimacy with your therapist? Do you make her shout to be heard? As I said in another thread, my emotional self has taken to innocent nonsexual flirting with my therapist to get the intensity. And has found delight in making him laugh or otherwise capturing his interest. In positive ways.
Which can be a problem in itself, because it is sometimes useful to be a brat with your therapist, and not try to please him instead. :)
There can be compromises. Or at least there can in my case. Perhaps it isn't true for you. In which case, simply ignore everything I said.
Posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 0:48:08
In reply to Re: Horrible session » daisym, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2005, at 17:30:02
I'll reply more fully in the morning. This was the day from hell at work and it wouldn't have happened if I'd been more together. So I got to therapy this afternoon in worse shape than I left yesterday.
I called his message machine in the middle of the night and said that we needed to figure out a way to help me hang on to him in a concrete way. That being this alone was simply intolerable.
When I walked in today, his talisman was sitting on the couch. I picked it up and said, "OK, now I can leave." And then I burst into tears and apologized for calling, for being a brat yesterday (he said I wasn't) and for needing so much from him. He asked me who left that message - and I said Little Daisy was way out last night. He nodded his head and said he thought so. He said it was really OK to call him and he would have called back but I said not to.
I said I was afraid to ask for his talisman directly -- even thought it was exactly what I wanted. I was afraid he might say no, you shouldn't need it anymore -- and more afraid that someone else might have it right now. He smiled and very gently told me that he didn't give it to anyone else, that he and I had thought of it together so it was mine to use whenever I needed it. I asked about 10 times if it was really OK that I wanted to hang on to it so much. It sounds a little crazy but it is just the perfect size to hold in your palm and rub your thumb on the worn leather. And it has a stone in it. He told me it was for protection and it was really OK to want and need that right now. We agreed that for the next little while when I felt really young I would hang on to the talisman and hold him in my thoughts. And when the adult took over and got upset about being needy, I would put it away and try to write down why I felt it was wrong. And if those things didn't work, I would call and touch base.
There was a lot more about healing and therapy spirals. But I have to go to bed. I just wanted to say that reading all your notes and advice really helped today. I feel blessed to have such support.
Posted by Shortelise on December 9, 2005, at 2:09:16
In reply to Thanks/update, posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 0:48:08
Daisy, this post just makes me cry. It's ok, I don't mind crying ... I just feel for you so much! I really think that your young self needs to be given the time she needs. I think of her just as I would think of any child, in need of patient understanding and care. Please be kind to her and take care of her.
((Daisy))
ShortE
Posted by Anneke on December 9, 2005, at 7:53:35
In reply to Thanks/update, posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 0:48:08
Not much time to post....it's a snow day here so all the kids are home, but I wanted to say that from where I'm sitting your therapist is wonderful and you are so brave and amazing and deserving of all of that wonderfulness. Good for him for giving you what you need and deserve and good for you for allowing him to. Anneke
Posted by antigua on December 9, 2005, at 13:00:31
In reply to Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 8, 2005, at 0:42:09
Daisy, how old is little Daisy? I'm just curious.
antigua
Posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 13:31:36
In reply to Re: Horrible session, posted by antigua on December 9, 2005, at 13:00:31
Most of the time she is 11 or 12. But there is an angry 9 year old part and a frightened 4 year old. Interestingly in my dreams the 11 year old will take care of the 4 year old. But the 9 year old (who rejects the name daisy, btw) is soooo angry, she is scary and she doesn't come to the forefront very often, except in moments of completely letting go. Her intensity often surprises both of us.
why do you ask?
Posted by antigua on December 9, 2005, at 19:42:56
In reply to Re: Horrible session, posted by daisym on December 9, 2005, at 13:31:36
My little one is four or five, and she's the one who needs protection. My nine-year-old used to be so angry but she doesn't seem to be so much anymore now that I'm able to let some of the anger out on my own. That padded baseball bat comes in handy when I want to take a whack at my mother or father. My 9 year old used to hate the weak littlest one, but she doesn't anymore.She watches over her.
I don't have an 11 yr old, but I do know the 12 year old who was brutally rejected by her father. But she never developed on her own. She actually IS who I am. I am working to grow her up to where she needs to be today.
Do you know what each age stands for, what part of your life was affected at that age? That's what I'm trying to do now, so I can bring them all together.
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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