![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
A difficult thing happened to me last week. It has taken me until now to begin to talk about it, and even now I feel quite nauseous.
I heard via email from an old friend, a man I respect. He is about twenty years older than me, a father figure I suppose. He has publicly supported survivor's movements for many years. In his email he wrote about a theraputic group for traumatised children which he is connected with, and so I decided I would trust him and tell him about my past, to see if we could establish a deeper friendship.
I invited him to lunch at a restaurant. We sat and talked for about four hours, and I told him about my father, about the abuse, about what it has cost me.
He sympathised, but somehow I felt very uncomfortable with his line of thought. He then told me he found all this digging up the past unhelpful, destructive.
And then he started making sexual advances. Trying to touch me, kiss me....
I feel dirty. I feel guilty for inviting him to lunch. Did I want this? Was I trying to seduce him by taking about sex, even though it was csa? It feels like the stuff whith my father all over again. How responsible am I now? How responsible was I then?
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Except that this feels like a pattern. And that I am always to blame.
Posted by B2chica on July 19, 2007, at 15:23:18
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
What a HORRIBLE person he is...i'm sorry he is/was your friend... but his response to your conversation was at the VERY LEAST inappropriate!
and to think he supports other survivors????
first his response about digging up the past...although not helpful to you is somewhat common, i had a pdoc tell me this once also.
HOWEVER, to then make advances toward you? is either along the lines of sick and disturbed OR he was just attracted to you but had NO compassion for what you had just divulged to him!
either way i'm sorry but you have no need for a man of his sort in your life.
i really hate to sound so harsh but i am REALLY angry about his actions...maybe i'm taking it a little too personal, and i'm not in a really good place right now.but no matter what, THIS IS NOT ANY REFLECTION OF YOU!!!!!
YOU did not ask for sexual advance from this creedent, nor should you EVER feel in ANY WAY guilty for this slimes actions!
this is ALL on him!i'm sorry vwoolf. i'm very emotional right now and maybe i shouldn't have responded so harshly, i'll stop for today and come back tomorrow. maybe others can be more objective.
Please PLEASE take heart that you are NOT RESPONSIBLE for either his or your fathers actions!!please take care.
Posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 15:35:48
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
Unfortunately, I found out once that telling a male actually invited sexual advances, which just blew me away. It's him, not you. It turns some men on, I'm afriad, and I'm so sorry you got sucked into this.
antigua
Posted by Maria01 on July 19, 2007, at 16:13:16
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
I am not a CSA survivor myself, but you did nothing wrong. It was your "friend" that was in the wrong in terms of making advances after you had told him your history. He sounds like a slippery character; can't believe he's involved with child survivors...on any level.
Posted by tofuemmy on July 19, 2007, at 18:15:10
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
Wow. I need to take my time here, cuz this guy really irks me.
There are men out there who prefer to date survivors of CSA. I know a guy who seems to do this exclusively. It's sick, twisted behavior. I don't for a second believe that they are into "saving" the poor victim. I think although they may not be offenders themselves - this is the next best thing they can get.
The idea that after you told your story, he was actually turned on enough to hit on you.....grrrrr. I really worry about what else he is up to hanging with survivors and traumatized kids. Ucky.
Please stay far away from this person!
emmy
P.S. Of course I am not saying that every man who has dated a survivor is an evil wierdo. But if that's your preference....quit it and seek therapy.
Posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 21:05:15
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
It wasn't you. This guy is sick. I would like to use stronger language but don't want to get banned or whatever it is called. How cruel of him, and you opened up to him. He should be boiled in oil.
This old friend is not a friend, and if I knew who he was I would tell him to take his sick self to - well I can't say here, but you can guess. Please don't hit yourself over the head about this guy. I understand the nausea, and I hope you can get good and outraged about his behavior as some of us are and so you don't blame yourself.
Posted by vwoolf on July 20, 2007, at 2:37:09
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
Thank you all for your indignation. It comes through very strongly and powerfully. I wish I were as strong as you sound.
But most of what I feel is confusion, and after seeing your responses, I've begun to wonder if my whole view of male/female interaction is perhaps skewed so that I can't have normal reactions. Because it seems to me almost right what this friend did, even though I feel sickened by it.
To put it succinctly (and perhaps brutally), the way I've always understood it is that men hit on women and if there is no opposition they have sex, where the man penetrates and violates the woman's body. The woman is penetrated, dominated. She submits to his more active will. There is no real possibility for man and woman to have a relationship that does not have this basic understanding at its core. So even though men may pretend to appreciate our intellects or our selves, and we may pretend to believe they do, this lies underneath it all.
I know that sounds awful, but if it's not like that, how is it? I'm really needing to know. I have only just begun to realise that underneath everything, this is the essence of what I believe.
Posted by tofuemmy on July 20, 2007, at 6:30:10
In reply to Is all male/female interaction abusive **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 20, 2007, at 2:37:09
I wasn't feeling at all indignant when I posted to you. I was worried, and scared for you. I'm sorry if it came across other wise.
Emmy
Posted by antigua3 on July 20, 2007, at 12:47:17
In reply to Is all male/female interaction abusive **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 20, 2007, at 2:37:09
Yes, your view may be skewed, based on whatever you've lived. I know mine is--I expct all men to ultimately, and abruptly, abandon me, especially if I were to tell them my secrets. Consequently, I didn't have much experience with men when I was younger, and most of the men I know are superficial friends. Men are divided into classes for me: evil ones, and those that are brother-like, since I had four brothers growing up. Intellectually I know this isn't true, but it's where I come from.
And no, not all relationships have to be like that. My husband isn't that way and never has been. I've learned it's OK to say no to him, based on my own needs.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by Sigismund on July 20, 2007, at 18:28:06
In reply to Is all male/female interaction abusive **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 20, 2007, at 2:37:09
So it suited him to say that this digging in the past was unhelpful.
>To put it succinctly (and perhaps brutally), the way I've always understood it is that men hit on women and if there is no opposition they have sex, where the man penetrates and violates the woman's body. The woman is penetrated, dominated. She submits to his more active will.
Sex for some people is like this, but this is not by any means good sex.
>There is no real possibility for man and woman to have a relationship that does not have this basic understanding at its core.
I don't agree. A lot of bad sex is not only stuff like that, there are other things that more or less relate to the problem of getting it up, a sort of get it in while it's up anxiety (speculation).
In fact, I would put it like this....if you have *that* understanding at the core, there is no way on earth there can be a good relationship between a man and a woman.>So even though men may pretend to appreciate our intellects or our selves, and we may pretend to believe they do, this lies underneath it all.
There was one book that suggested that Leonard Woolf had kinda murdered Virginia, but the consensus of opinion is that this highly sexed man forwent sex so as to live with and support the woman he loved and felt was a genius.
That bloke was being really creepy.
But you know it cuts both ways? You of course know Sylvia Plath's 'Every woman adores a fascist'?
Men (which ones? me?) sometimes feel that women divide them up into friends and f*cks.And now that I think about it, male/female interaction could do with a lot of improvement.
Posted by OzLand on July 20, 2007, at 20:18:11
In reply to Is all male/female interaction abusive **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 20, 2007, at 2:37:09
I used to think and act that way too, but not anymore. When I was younger and not married, I used to think that I owed someone sex becuase they were nice to me, because they wanted it, because they did me a favor, etc. It all stems from the abuse. Now I just want to tell them all to take a flying f, and so that is really no better as it also is a reaction to early abuse.
It's okay if you are not as indignant as some of us; at least you now recognize, I think, that like I used to be, this is not healty for you. I just would not want you to blame yourself as it makes perfect sense to me now that I was like that too. Well, actually it does not make perfect sense to me. Maybe a little, and it's all a cognitive understanding. I still don't connect it with any emotions yet. You take care of yourself and just know we care, and we will always be here for you and not judge.
Posted by DAisym on July 20, 2007, at 20:54:57
In reply to Talking about csa to others **trigger**, posted by vwoolf on July 19, 2007, at 14:54:41
If this feels like a pattern then it is something to look at. But "blame" is a strong word and what does it imply? You certainly don't have the power to make someone act inappropriate.
I think that some men are drawn to the vulnerabilities of others and they want to comfort but the only way they know how is sexually. It may be that this man, with whom you connected so deeply for 4 hours, was moved by you and wanted to be close to you. So using very poor judgement, he made advances. He could have misread your signals, or perhaps he was responding to internal signals of his own. It is too bad that what seems to have been a good connection was twisted into something awful.
As far as not exploring the past, this is a common comment. Many people can see you hurting over it and believe that ignoring it is the best defense against the hurt. Psychologist have huge differences of opinions about how best to treat trauma and many, many believe that if it isn't up for you, don't mess with it.
But it is up for you, otherwise you wouldn't need/want to talk about it. So he blew it, however kindly meant.
And I'll remain open to the idea that he was just a jerk. But most of your description didn't make him sound that way and I suspect it isn't that simple.
I don't believe that male/female relationship are all about dominance and sex. But I think sexual tension runs through many relationships, of all genders, because the world at large has been sexualized. I know many women who are only interested in getting guys into bed and many men who are lonely and want a partnership that is so much more than sex. Yes, there is base biology and chemisty. But since we are higher thinking creatures, we don't have to be governed by impulse.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.